Atopic Dermatitis: (not a fun discussion)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Is there anyone here who has a dog who has been diagnosed with atopy, or atopic dermatitis? If so, I would be interested in discussing treatment options such as Atopica, intradermal testing, injections, etc.
My adopted labradoodle has it, and I have not been able to find many people who can share their experiences with me. The decisions are scary and life-changing. With the number of doodle owners here, I am hoping I can find someone who is also going thru this (not that I would wish it on anyone) and perhaps get some sound guidance, or least a little commiseration, lol.
Thanks, Karen

[Adina P]

Tell us more about it as you find out. What exactly IS it and what are the symptoms and what you're learning so far?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Hi Adina:
Honestly, this topic is so painful for me, I haven't even got the heart to go into it. It has to do with an auto-immune system defiency, i.e., a true allergy, and every time allergy is brought up on any forum, well-meaning people start to give advice about diet, etc., which is not only unhelpful but frustrating. True allergies, those that have been diagnosed medically, are one of the most misunderstood illnesses in the world. (The CDC, and several worldwide health organizations, estimate that 60% of people who claim that they or a family member is "allergic" are in fact mistaken...this phenomenom is called "perceived allergies".) You can look it up on line, but basically it is a skin disease that gets worse as the dog ages to the point that people give their dogs up because of the cost and difficulty of treatment, or they have the dogs euthanized because the animals are suffering so terribly. I had a foster dog who had both these things happen to him. You cannot cure it. There are now 2 treatment options which can control the symptoms in up to 75% of the dogs, but they are wretched, extremely expensive, and in some cases put the dog's life at risk. This runs in some Golden and lab lines, and obviously, dogs who have it should never be bred, but my Jack came from a pet store, i.e. puppy mill. It is hard to decide which of the 2 options is the least harmful and I am hoping to be able to hear others' experiences with them to help me w. this decision.
Thank you so much for your kind interest. I am afraid yours may be the only response I get, lol.
Karen

[Beth and Gang]

Hi Karen,
My chocolate lab has allergies, we have tried the food switch, she takes daily meds and also gets a shot 2 times a year when things are flaring.
She is breaking out today and will be back at the vet this week.
If you know of any help, I'd love to hear about it.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Hi Beth:
I have had allergic dogs in the past, but nothing like this. The look on the specialist's face when she diagnosed Jack was like the look on my mom's oncologist's face when he told us nothing more could be done. Jack's dermatologist felt strongly that the atopy was the reason his original owners gave him up in the first place.
I'm assuming the shots your lab gets are cortisone( cortisteroids)? We used those for other dogs I had with seasonal allergies, but for the atopic dermatitis, the amount they would have to have and the steroid side-effects are dangerous. If your dog gets relief from having them a couple times a year, it's great. I'm also wondering what daily meds she's on? Jack gets Omega 6 fatty acid supplements, and antihistamines daily, but we know they aren't going to help forever. I am so afraid of the Atopica's side effects, but we can't do intradermal testing until fall when he's symptom free, and they say the allergy shots can take 6 months to work. Either course of treatment will run approx. $250.00 a month overall.
Has your lab been specifically diagnosed with atopy? How old is she? Jack doesn't break out...he bites his feet, groin, etc, until they are hairless, raw, etc, also his eyes get red and swell up. He is 3 and a half, but my regular vet saw the allergy symptoms right away when I adopted him at 14 months, and they have gotten worse.
It is so awful when they're suffering and you can't help them. Thanks for responding,
Karen

[Beth and Gang]

Abby D'Labby takes Temaril P 2 times a day when her skin is bothering her a lot (like now) and once a day when it is not so itchy. Benadryl did not help her.
She can chew her feet raw.
Her ears also become sore.(we have used thornit powder, dermalone,malotic etc..)
She develops a rash on her chest.(and takes antibiotics to relieve it)
I don't remember what the shot is, but she can only have it 2 x a year,it's a federal law.
I can't imagine the terrible, constant itching these poor dogs go through.
HOT summer seems to be the worst time for her.
She is now 6 yrs old, and this has been a constant problem for her.
At the worst she was hospitalized for 4 days, becauseshe developed a strep like condition in her lungs...
I sympathize with your journey to find an answer for Jack.
Bless you for trying to help him....quitting like the previous owner is not a choice once they are in your heart and home.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Thanks, Beth.
Although it sounds like Abby's specific allergen triggers may be different than Jack's, I can see that you also are dealing with a very difficult allergy problem...I think all of us with these issues can sympathize with each other. I looked up the Temaril P on line, and it appears to be a combination of steroids and antihistamines. All of these drugs are dangerous over long-term usage, but what is the alternative? You have to do something for the dogs, you can't just let them suffer. It's like those ads for human drugs where they tell you the benefits outweigh the risks. You hear about the vets getting the same "perks" from the drug companies that the human MD's get...it's so hard to know who to trust. I will say that the dermatolgy specialist seemed to understand Jack's particular problem better than my regular vet. I was just so shocked at the seriousness of it.
I once had a foster dog whose adoptive mom had him euthanized 9 mos. after he was adopted because of the same problem Jack has. I know she tried everything she could find to help him...at the end, she told me he was in such agony, he was trying to tear his own feet off. When I take the spiritual viewpoint, I think maybe I'm getting a second chance to save a dog's life. I just hope I make the right decisions for him. It helps so much to have someone else who is going through a similar situation to talk to. Thank you...and love to you & Abby from Jack & I.
Karen

[gene]

Right now I'm going through something that sounds very familiar with Jonah. Our vet diagnosed a staph infection. He was on antibiotics and twice weekly baths with anti-fungal shampoo for 3 weeks. Ended the antibiotics last week. Yesterday he was licking his "nether regions", and sure enough....it's back again. I'm picking up more antibiotics today. I've also had recommended to me washing him with a 50/50 mixture of apple cider vinegar and water a couple of times a day.
I did a google search of atopic dermatitis, and came up with this link......
http://priory.com/vet/vetatop1.htm
......the description of it sounds really similar to what Jonah and I are going through.

I am so sorry for what you're going through Karen. I understand your frustration when people say diet change and the like. That was one of the first things we tried. Rumor also has allergies so my three are all on Evo red meat bites, so it can't be a grain issue.

Good luck.....keep us updated....I'll take any advise I can get also.

PS:Yikes!! Sorry for the rambling novel folks......been up since 4am!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Hi Gene:
Yes, I have read the link you provided, as well as every other bit of info I could find on the web. As I mentioned to Beth, I really started to get a clearer picture when I took Jack to see a veterinary dermatology specialist...actual, my regular vet finally did recommend the specialist, as we were beginning to have to treat the syptoms too frequently. We have been using Evening primrose oil capsules (Omega 6 fatty acids) and antihistamines daily, which are safe, but if you have to go to the steroids too often there is a major risk of kidney/liver damage, cancer, etc., over time.
With atopic dermatitis, there are basically 2 choices once the dog has gotten to the point where the seasonal discomfort is going on more than 4 or 5 months of the year. One is the intradermal testing which is shown in your link above. The other is a "new" drug, Atopica. Both have major downsides and no guarantee of working. (There is no possibility of curing it in any case; keeping the dog comfortable is the best you can hope for.) This is the decision I am struggling with now. The intradermal testing will cost $650.00, and involves putting Jack under general anesthetic. It cannot be done until the dog is symptom free (fall-winter) and the point of it is to find out the exact allergens so you can learn (!)to administer daily injections. It can take up to 6 months to become effective, if it does at all, and the serums can vary from batch to batch, causing uneven results even after they have been getting shots for a while. All that, and it may not even help! I would like to have it done just to find out exactly what he's allergic to, so maybe I can control it by elimination, but have been told that idea is foolhardy, since it is usually a combination of things that are so common & prevalent in our surroundings (dust, grass, mold, etc.) that it is impossible to eliminate them. I will discuss the Atopica option in a separate post, as this is getting too long.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Atopica is the brand name of a veterinary version of the human drug Cyclosporine. In humans, cyclosporine is mainly given to organ transplant recipients to prevent their immune systems from fighting against the "alien" organ...rejection. It works against allergies in the same way; to understand this, you have to first understand what a real allergy is.
A true allergy is when the immune system makes antibodies against some substance that it perceives as "foreign." Subsequently, when the allergic party encounters that substance, these antibodies "fight" it off...the allergic symptoms are part of the "fight", and they take the form of actual physical ailments such as itching, rashes, inflammation, etc. They truly make you ill. The more potential allergens you are exposed to from an early age, the less likely it is that you will be allergic. This relates to those studies about children raised on farms being healthier & having less allergies due to being raised around dirt, animals, fertilizers, etc. froma young age. This is also why a person who lived in the city all his life and then moves to the country may start to have seasonal allergies even as an adult...he was never exposed to these pollens, etc., before, and his body is fighting them. One interesting fact I have learned about Jack's allergies, which are probably grass & mold related, is that he would not be suffering if he had not been moved from AZ, where he was originally purchased, to suburban Illinois. he gets particularly bad during the spring & fall rains. This could be a good guide to use when looking for a breeder.
On to Atopica...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Okay: Atopica. Atopica suppresses the immune system so that it won't fight back against the allergens. Unfortunately, it also won't fight back against ANYTHING...germs, viruses, bacteria, etc. All of the things a healthy immune system does to help you keep from getting sick, a suppressed immune system can't do. This is just like having to wash your hands and wear a mask when you go to visit a chemo patient...except the dogs at the the dog park, vet, etc., aren't going to wash their hands, etc...neither are the zillion other animals & germs your dog comes into contact with everyday. Antibiotics will not work very well for a dog on Atopica...so ear infections, cuts & scrapes, etc., better not happen. Not to mention the inital side-effects of vomiting, diarrhea, letargy, etc., and the cost...about $200 a month. Sweet drug, huh?
Either testing & shots, or Atopica...both mega $$$, both forever, neither guaranteed; it will eventually come to the "help him or he's going to tear off his own feet " stage, so a decision has to be made. You cannot get rid of allergies, the antibodies are there for good. You can only alleviate the symptoms. I just wish I knew some people whose dogs had been on one treatment or the other and could tell me first hand about it...not the literature from the drug companies.
Sorry to go on & on...but this is what I've learned so far. Thank you again, Beth, and Gene, for sharing your experiences. Any other feedback or opinions you have would be welcomed.
Karen & Jack

[gene]

Beth, I pray that you find the help you need for this problem. Please keep us posted.

[1v200f3rbrnxk]

wow i really hope you are able to find something that will help ease up your doodle's condition.

we're going through unexplained allergy on Max for a almost a month, antibiotics , 2 rx ointments didn't work, using medicated shampoo , yes apple cider vinegar diluted with water will ease the ithcing for about 4hours but doesn't cure it. Also trying cortisone cream.

his one ear stays pinkish red with a couple of spots that end up almost healing then he scratches again and they're back to bleeding. same on his front legs and belly.

we're trying an organic spray that seems to be giving him relief and he is itching less now
so it's a wait and see game if he heals or another visit again to the vets