7 month old Doodle still nipping

[Carolyn Northover]

Hi 

Our seven month old male Golden Doodle is still nipping. At first we thought it was because he was a puppy and it was from teething but he isn't teething any more but still nips. He nips and will snap towards you. He is a good natured dog and we think he is doing it by trying to play, but we are wondering if this is a normal behaviour for a Golden Doodle and if they outgrow it?

We have given him time outs and we also use a leash on him in the house if he is biting. This seems to work. He is a big boy, at 65 pounds so far. He has been recently neutered and is all healed from that. He actually was back to his regular self a day later!

We love him dearly but the biting has to go. For the record he is in a busy house with with 4 adults a teenager, a three year old and three cats. He does not get along with the cats, so at this point we have them segregated by a gate that the cats can easily jump over if they want to get away..which they do.

Looking for any suggestions or just to know if this a behaviour that is common or normal for a Golden Doodle and if they outgrow it.

Thank you!

[Adina P]

My huge Rosco (about 90lbs) nipped until he was a year.  And sometimes he SEEMED like a ferocious lion.  What helped us was spending a lot of time in training.  It wasn't really training targeted at the nipping, just really fine tuning obedience training. I think that helped him see me as a leader and probably some maturity contributed to the nipping coming to an end.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I agree with Adina, a good overall obedience training program is the key.

Also, in such a busy household, it's imperative that everybody be on board with the training program and the rules. And the rules MUST include never encouraging or allowing the dog to grab, pull, or wrestle anything away from any human, including during play sessions, and including toys or treats. if the dog wants whatever it is, he must be sitting and must wait for it to be given or thrown. Similarly, the dog must drop the toy or ball before anyone throws it for him. And absolutely NO tug-of-war games. No playing with the dog using hands as the toy, either. (Males tend to do this.) If the dog's teeth ever touch any part of a human, including clothing, even by accident, the game ends  immediately. :)

[Stacy]

I don't have any real advice except lots of patience and training, but I just wanted to comment that I am always really impressed and amazed that anyone has these behaviors under control at 7 months old. At that age Katie was 100% naughty puppy disaster. She chewed everything, including me. She chewed my clothes (even when I was wearing them) she chewed the sheets in the middle of the night. She didn't listen, she bounced off the walls. She was just generally naughty. And I know that most of that is because I'm terrible at discipline and very permissive. But I also knew she would grow out of it eventually. It got a lot better once all of her adult teeth were in - and when she turned 2. I always told myself that she would stop being such a naughty puppy and settle down when she was 2. She was my first 8 week old puppy, all of my other dogs had come when they were older. If I had to do it again I would have tried for more discipline at a younger age. But my point is they really do grow out of it! Even if you're no better at puppy parenting than I was! Katie isn't a juvenile delinquent anymore!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I think there's a difference though between puppies chewing things (including you, lol) and actually snapping at humans or biting them. It can be hard for an inexperienced puppy owner to know the difference between normal puppy play behaviors, and behaviors which are actually warning signals. In the latter case, they aren't likely to outgrow them; they may escalate.  And since all puppies can benefit from training, I think it's usually wise to err on the side of caution. Doodle Rescue sees a lot of 18-30 month old doodles who lose their homes because they growl, bare teeth, or snap at owners, and not in play. I think this is especially important when there is a three year old in the house. 

[Stacy]

You're right. That's an important distinction that I didn't make. As mouthy as Katie was, she never broke skin or even really left bruises. If she did hurt me and I yelled (for real, not the fake yell - she knew the difference) she would immediately stop and snuggle and kiss. I know I anthropomorphize, but I always felt like it was an accident and that she was sorry. There was no agression there at all. She showed my pant legs no mercy though, and would try to drag me around the house by them. She still does that once in a while. But she's still just a puppy, you know. 

[Binny P]

What is the difference? I think about this a lot as he gets older/bigger -- I'm not sure I could tell the difference and it is easy to imagine veering too far in one direction or the other (worrying there is a Serious Issue when it is still really problematic puppy play, but ultimately play or thinking it is problematic play when really it is a sign of something much more serious). I would love thoughts on things to look out for! 

[Stacy]

I wish I had a good answer for you. I feel like most of the time you can just tell the difference between crazy play and aggression. But I don't think I would be qualified to define it.

I watch this guy on Facebook - his name is Shawn and his company is called The Good Dog Training and Rehabilitation. He does a lot of videos. He is an e-collar trainer, which I know is very controversial. But a lot of the dogs that he works with are really serious cases. Dogs that already have bites on their records, and he does some amazing things with them. A lot of the dogs he works with are at real risk to be put to sleep if their behavior isn't changed. They're the dog that every other trainer has looked at and couldn't do anything with.

But even if you ignore the training aspect, he does intake videos with a lot of dogs. Some of them have to be muzzled for him to even take their leash. And they can and do attack him. It's frightening. I've never seen a dog in real life behave like that. There's no question that they mean business and given the opportunity they will eat you. You don't have to wonder if they're just playing. 

I've seen some really bad dog bites. A couple broken arms. Gashes that had to go to the operating room to be repaired. I once saw a 6ish year old that was sleeping in the dogs bed and 2 rottweilers had attacked him together and mauled him. But I have to believe that for the most part those dogs had given some indication that they were aggressive before that bite. They weren't happy bouncing puppies who just one day mauled someone out of nowhere. On the other side I've also seen the bites where the dog was sleeping and the kid tripped and fell on top of them. But those bites look different. There's a difference between a dog who bit for a legitimate reason, and a dog who attacked. 

I don't know if that's at all helpful, but if you watch some of those videos they are very interesting.