Advice in searching for a F1b medium Goldendoodle

[Natasha]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for an F1B medium Goldendoodle.  I picked a goldendoodle because they are super cute, low shedding, temperment - gets along with children, other dogs, strangers etc.  I realize socialization will help with them getting along with others and I'll play a huge role in that.  My 3 year old St-Bernard has bone cancer and I'm heart broken, but I can see that probably within the next month I will have to let him go.  I would like to avoid health problems as much in the futre so I was thinking I should buy from a reputable breeder, not a backyard breeder like my St-Bernard, and not a puppy mill, etc.  Would a breeder consider bone cancer a genetic defect?  I saw lots of places have the hips, elbows and eyes tested, and I feel more comfortable buying from places that have done some health testing.

I am near Montreal Quebec, but I don't see any goldendoodle breeders here.  I'm willing to go to pretty much anywhere in southern Ontario to get a puppy.  Although this means I might not see the place until I actually go to pick up my puppy.  If someone has a suggestion, or recommendation of who to avoid, can they please send me a private email (as per the rules)?  I was looking at Doodlelane and Red Stables, but I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks for your help,

Natasha

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

Hi Natasha, I sent you PMs because we're not allowed to endorse breeders on the main forum.

Check out the facebook page for Ottawa Area Goldendoodle and Labradoodle owners. you can get recommendations there.

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

Also, you can join this group: http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/ownerrecommendedbreeders

And this should help too. http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/what-to-look-for-in-a

[Adina P]

I'm so sorry about your St-Bernard.  Bone cancer sucks, our border collie had it as an old senior dog and it was sad then...but a 3 y.o....just awful. 

Typically health warranties only cover the first 2 years, so even if a breeder specifically stated it would cover bone cancer, it wouldn't matter because I don't think it's very common for dogs to get it before age 2.  Not sure how common it is in retrievers and mini poodles...would be worth researching.  I haven't heard of any doodles getting that, but that doesn't mean anything.  I would guess it's fairly rare and most breeders wouldn't even know if it was in their lines.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Osteosarcoma is not all that rare, but it's seen primarily in the giant breeds like St. Bernards. However, it does run in Goldens. But then, Goldens have a higher incidence of all forms of cancer than any recognized breed.

Osteosarcoma may or may not be genetic.

Some info:

Osteosarcoma (OSA) is a rapidly growing, destructive neoplasm of bone that accounts for 80% of all malignant bone tumors in dogs.^9,10 Neoplasms of the skeleton are more common in dogs than in any other species. Primary bone tumors such as OSA are five times more common than metastatic skeletal neoplasms, and malignant tumors are more common than benign neoplasms.¹²

Breed, Age, and Sex Predisposition

Osteosarcoma is most common in giant and large breed dogs (90%) and is uncommon in small and medium breeds.¹³ Breeds especially predisposed to development of OSA include Saint Bernards, Rottweilers, Great Danes, Golden Retrievers, Irish setters, Doberman Pinschers, and Labrador retrievers. The mean age of occurrence is 7-1/2 years and incidence of OSA is slightly more common in males than females (1.2:1).^10,13

Factors Influencing Tumor Development

Ionizing radiation, chemical carcinogens, foreign bodies (including metal implants, such as internal fixators, bullets, and bone transplants), and pre-existing skeletal abnormalities such as sites of healed fractures contribute to the development of OSA. In addition, there have been correlations with genetic predisposition to tumor development in certain family lines. Dogs with OSA have been found to have aberrations of the p53 tumor suppressor gene.¹¹ In laboratory animals, both DNA viruses (polyomavirus and SV-40 virus) and RNA viruses (type C retroviruses) have been found to induce OSA.¹³

http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/kramer/index.php

 

Although breeding a dog after the age of 2 or 3 gives a better indication of what health issues there may be, in this case it wouldn't, because average onset is 7.5 years. But if you know your lines and keep track, you would know if it ran in a line.

[Natasha]

Oh man!  I'm sad to see golden retreivers on that list.  I don't want to go through this again.  Labs are on the list too...  Where ever I get my next dog I will ask if there has been any cancer in relatives of the dog.  I hope a reputable breeder would be honest about that.  I checked the link you posted and the first xray looks just like the xray of my dog (although I'm not trained to read xrays or anything).  I guess F1b goldendoodles would be less prone to cancer then F1s or goldendoodles because they have more poodle in them?

Thanks for the information and help.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

F1BGoldendoodles are not necessarily less prone to cancer than purebreds or F1s, because genetics don't work that way. The genes of one breed don't get weakened or diluted by the other. In some diseases, a copy of the defective gene must be passed by each parent in order for the offspring to be affected, but not in all diseases. If a grandparent had a gene for a disease, that can be passed on.

For example, several of us here have dogs who suffer from a genetic condition called Atopic Dermatitis, which runs in Labradors and Goldens, with labs having the second highest incidence of any breed. It is rare in poodles. The mode of inheritance is not known, but it seems fairly clear that it was passed to our dogs from the retriever side alone, even though some of the dogs are multi-gens and have not had a purebred retriever in their lineage for many generations.

The more common a breed is, the more genetic diseases it may be susceptible to. This is one of the downsides to a breed's being very popular.

[Adina P]

Chances are slim that you'd get two dogs in a row with bone cancer.  Though I understand why it's a huge concern and makes you a little gun shy about choosing the 'wrong' breed.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I think Rusty had bone cancer, perhaps osteosarcoma per se but possibly Ewing's sarcoma.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Natasha, I'm so sorry to hear about your St. Bernard.

Goldendoodles should be tested for von Willebrands disease, in addition to hips, elbows, heart, and eyes.

You are right that socialization plays a huge role in how a dog will relate to anyone, strangers, kids, etc. Remember that no dog is born liking children. That has to be developed through socialization and exposure. Temperament is largely genetic. Also, within any litter, each dog may have a different temperament. A good breeder should be able to help you choose a puppy who is most likely to be more tolerant and open with kids.

The most important thing after health testing is to see the breeder's premises and meet the parent dogs and any other dogs who are related. That will tell you a great deal about their temperaments, as well as the kind of care the dogs are receiving.

And keep in mind that with mixed breed dogs, there is no way to guarantee size, coat or coloring. It's not a matter of averaging the size of the two parents. Many many doodles end up larger than either parent. While an F1B GD has an excellent chance of being low shedding, that is not always the case, either.

Our DK Guidelines What to Look for in a Breeder are an excellent resource.

Good luck in your search and hugs to your Berner.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Sadly, the Puppy Mill Capitol of North America remains the state of Missouri, but the area you referred to certainly has more than it's share. :(

[F, Calla & Luca]

Unfortunately golden retrievers do have a very high rate of cancer in general.

Cancer. Recent surveys show that cancer is the #1 cause of death in golden retrievers and that their cancer rates equal some of the breeds long thought to lead the way in incidence of cancer, such as Boxers. In our opinion, this skyrocketing rate and the denial of many breeders are the greatest tragedies of the golden retriever in the 1990s. Cancers such as hemangiosarcoma (cancer of the blood) and lymphosarcoma (cancer of the lymphatic system) lead the list of killers of goldens. The breed's average lifespan is now down to 10 1/2 years.

I'm sorry to hear about your St. Bernard and I hope he does not suffer.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I've also seen a statistic that 60% of all Goldens develop cancer.