Anyone own a f1 x f1b pup?

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

I was just wondering if anyone has a dood who has 1 parent an f1 and one parent an f1b. I would like to see pics.

[1xar0x2rcx0li]

Check out Cindy's Mandy. She is an F2 from F1 x F1b I think, but you would have to double check with her.
http://www.doodlekisses.com/profile/CindyCarmichael

[Linda,Yankee & Finn]

Why? Are you looking at puppies again?

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

I just know of an f1 x f1b breeding. The parents are gorgeous, so I am curious about what these puppies will turn out like. ;o)~

I love to obsess over things - lol! But I already have a 6 month old puppy!

Just because the brain wants to know what it wants to know.

[Adina P]

The possibilities are only SLIGHTLY less extreme than F1 x F1 breeding I would think. I'm copying/pasting this analogy I wrote for another discussion:

Thinking of JUST an F1b labradoodle for instance. Imagine that poodle genes are blue marbles and lab genes are yellow marbles.

A jar of F1 genes that was a pure 50/50 mix you'd have equal blue to yellow marbles.
And a poodle genes jar would contain only blue marbles.

Now to make an F1b for every 2-gene combo you'd randomly choose one marble from the F1 jar and one marble from the Poodle jar. When choosing from the poodle jar you'd ALWAYS get a poodle gene. But when blindly reaching into the F1 jar, sometimes you'd pick a blue sometimes a yellow.... So some F1b's could have more poodle genes, others more lab genes...and only looking at a WHOLE population average would F1b's look like 3/4 poodle.

But then mixing the F1 x F1b means there is still a possibility of some LABBY pups and some POODLEY pups.

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

Yep. Makes perfect sense. The only way to get close to a non shedding coat is with a straight f1b. But you technically could get an f1b result from the above scenario. You have 4 jars:

Jar 1 Lab
Jar 2 Poodle
Jar 3 Lab/Poodle
Jar 4 Poodle

Jar 1 and 2 represent the F1 parent
Jar 3 and 4 represent the F1b parent

It looks like the labbiest scenario would be a 50/50 lab- poodle gene combo. the poodliest a 1/4 lab to 3/4 poodle combo. So I would deduce that the chances are high of a non shedding dog in a litter of 4.

LOL (I feel like a mad scientist)

[Adina P]

Now you've lost me...LOL
The labbiest possibilities come from an F1 x F1 mix because there is a chance to get lab genes on both sides (since both parents carry lab genes in an F1). However in a 50/50 lab/poodle combo, every dog gets a poodle gene even if not the one that matters in doodle looks. But that's just probability not proof of how any single dog will come out.

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

Pic a marble from each of the 4 jars. Those pups I showed you would be picking a marble from each.

Mom (f1b) contributes anything from jar 3 and 4
Dad (f1) contributes anything from jar 1 and 2.

[Adina P]

First you'd have to make ONE jar for each parent to represent them (based on what jars they got their genes [marbles] from)--rather than pick from 4 jars at once. So to make these pups you'd be picking from the mom's ONE jar and the dad's ONE jar... I wish I had some marbles so I could do a little visual experiment. Do you own any?? Maybe I'll cut up a bunch of pieces of paper with words on them like (lab or poodle) for various generic genes like length of hair, curl, etc. Though it's not as simple.

One F1b jar can look MANY ways. It MIGHT have lots of lab genes or lots of poodle genes or anywhere in between (even though if you took an average of F1b genes...the average would be 75% poodle) we don't know exactly what the F1b parent carries precisely because the selection is random. So if you were picking from jar 3 and 4 randomly...you'd create the F1b parent jar and THAT would be the jar you'd pick from to make these pups (along with jar 2).

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

Umm no. I think we both lost our marbles Adina.

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

Yes and that moms ONE jar would have a combination of marbles of the 2 jars of her parents. Would it not? Thats why I just simplified it into breaking it down into 4 jars. But I agree there is chances that moms ONE jar is extremely lopsided...ie mostly poodle marbles in it with 1 lab marble. But I am visualizing a more even balance.

[Adina P]

Yes and that moms ONE jar would have a combination of marbles of the 2 jars of her parents. Would it not?

Correct (which is the mom...the F1b?).

But the problem with the 4 jars is that any one feature only has one gene from each parent (or one marble from each parent) so you can only choose from 2 jars.

Off of marbles for a sec...if the puppy in the litter that most resembled the parents was bred to an unrelated same generation pup that also resembled the parents and were bred together...even higher chances for look alikes...each time that would be done would bring you closer to breeding true for that look. The tough part is finding the pup with the look + the health + the temperament...I'm amazed that any founding breeders of pure breeds had the PATIENCE.

[Kendra K. Rhoton]

I got a labby pup :) Goldendoodle dad, poodle mom... and he sheds like crazy even though he's 3/4 poodle :)