Are GDs "rude"?

[Ellen]

I attended an agility class last night with my mini goldendoodle Riley, and the instructor made an interesting comment about GDs. But I need to give you some context, so bear with me.

It was a great class, but at the end, one of the dogs suddenly lunged at Riley and another dog with teeth baring and lot of growling/barking. Everybody was startled, including the dog's owners. The instructor explained that dogs that are otherwise fine in a leash-free environment sometimes are leash aggressive, which I've heard before.

I piped up and said that it doesn't help that Riley starts wriggling his butt and jumping up and down eager to play with a leash-aggressive dog that clearly has other plans. At this point, my instructor asked if Riley was a goldendoodle and said "Don't be offended, but I've worked a lot of goldendoodles, and they tend to be rude".....i.e., GDs will make the situation worse by approaching a leash-aggressive dog or directly facing an leash-aggressive dog instead of turning its body or head away to alleviate the situation.

I wasn't offended, but I never thought about it in that way. I always thought Riley was just an uber friendly dog that just didn't catch the signals from aggressive dogs. But then I remembered that at the dog park, Riley goes out of his way to avoid aggressive dogs; as soon as a dog growls at him over a water bowl or tennis ball, Riley is out of there! So, I find it interesting that he doesn't act the same way when we run into a leash-aggressive dog that is lunging and growling at him, clearly ready to tear him apart.

So, I put it out to the DK community.......Are goldendoodles "rude"?

[Megan]

You know, this was a great wake up call for me. I've honestly felt as though some dogs just don't like Brooks and now I have a better understanding why that is. As his Mom, his happy-go-lucky, always smiling attitude is admirable. I always thought..how could they NOT like Brooks he's so playful and happy? He just wants to play has come out of my mouth like a zillion times ..okay, lightbulb moment for me. I will say that through obediance and growing older, it has gotten better, but I am with Adina...how do you teach them the proper way to say hello? Thanks for bringing this subject up...its really got me thinking! :)

[Leslie and Halas]

Halas likes Brooksy and the way he says hello. Probably because Halas does it the same way. They can just hang out with each other at the dog park. They can greet each other rudely and get it out of their systems.

[Megan]

I know, I know!!! Thanks for the nice comment and support....I haven't told you yet, but some guy at the dog park a little while back got really mad at me and Brooks because, like normal, Brooksy went up to this new dog..which looked like a britney spaniel or something similar and said "hello" in his normal way...well, this dog didn't really like it..and of course, Brooks is oblivious and wondering why the heck this dog won't play with him. I should have distracted him and got him away from this dog, but honestly, its what dogs do.."so I thought." Well, this guy YELLED at me...(there was no barking, biting, or any type of aggression from Brooks or his dog) and told me that my SILLY looking dog was being inappropriate. Can you guess my response? ..... I was taken back and could feel my heart starting to boil because no one talks bad about my Brooksy. I took a deep breath (thank god) and just kindly said that he is a puppy and just playing and that's how puppies play (which I think is TRUE). I do see now after reading these posts that Brooks can be a lil' relentless..but I don't think it warrented an insult. He leashed up his dog and LEFT..and Brooksy proceeded to flop down under a tree...happy as a clam. :) I love him so much..its just hard to even think that he's causing this kind of response from dogs....

[Adina P]

I think when you go to a dog park you have to be READY for inappropriateness and silly dogs and annoying dogs, etc. There aren't requirements for dog parks..dogs don't have to pass any obedience test...it's a mish mash of sizes, personalities, behavior issues, quirks....all free to act as they please without much ability to control them. So if you're gonna go...you can mutter under your breath (referring to this guy) but there's not much you can DO so I think people just need to accept that dog parks can be crazy and stay away if they don't want their dogs bugged at all.

HOWEVER, aggression is not something that should be tolerated--ever.

I usually go to the dog park and end up frustrated by other people's dogs and then stop going for long stretches...forget the bad experience and try again...repeat ad nauseum =)

[Leslie and Halas]

Yeah, what's with the yelling at you? And calling Brooks silly looking? As if looking silly has anything to do with being inappropriate (it's funny to describe a dog as inappropriate). And he's confusing "silly" with "adorable." He could have been way more polite about it if he could tell his dog was getting upset. This is a really interesting topic, and I'm going to take special care to try to make sure Halas doesn't act "rude," but, honestly, most dogs at the dog park greet the new dogs in this very excited manner.

[Sally, Ditzy Mitzi & Sgt. Pepper]

I just saw this discussion and am also amazed by how other dog owners react to different situations. I have stopped going to the dog park near our neighborhood because of "aggressive" dogs.

Either our GD doesn't understand signals from other dogs or is oblivious to aggression and just wants to have fun. I have been told by the owners of aggessive dogs (pit bull mixes) that they are just "posturing". Personally I would prefer to have them "posture" in their own back yard.

To call playfullness "rude" is interesting and perhaps an attempt to cover an aggressive animal's behavior.

[Sharon, Boo & Cricket]

"I will say that through obediance and growing older, it has gotten better, but I am with Adina...how do you teach them the proper way to say hello?"

I don’t know if its possible to teach a dog the proper way to say hello. But I think there are some things you can train that will make their exhuberant greetings seem less overwhelming to other dogs. And like you said, growing older definitely helps too! ;)

These are a few things that helped us:

-Slow Down: my doodle used to run full-speed up to new dogs (and sometimes crash into them, oy) as his greeting. It was pretty overwhelming for new dogs that had just entered the park, so we taught him the “slow” command. Aka, slow down to a walk, no running and no crashing into dogs! ;)

-Wait, Then Greet: we taught our doodle to wait to meet new dogs until we said it was okay. He would see a new dog entering the park and we would say “Waaaait”. Once the other dogs had met the new dog we would let our doodle go say hi. By having our doodle wait, we were able to scope out the new dog (did it look friendly? how did it react to other exhuberant greeters?) Some dogs can handle one exhuberant greeter, but not five at once, so having our doodle wait until the crowd had dispersed was helpful. :)

-Easy, Leave It, etc: our doodle was really bouncy and would bounce in front of, and often on top of, new dogs. So we would say “Easy” (i.e. calm down a little) if the new dog was looking overwhelmed by his bounciness. And “Leave It” (i.e. walk away and come to us for a treat) if the new dog was totally fed up with him. Training this took time and we had to shadow him at the dog park for a while. Sometimes we would put him on a short leash to have better control of him.

-Short Greetings: some dogs don’t like long “face-to-face” greetings. (Maybe its like meeting a new person who won’t stop shaking your hand? Hahaha!) So we taught our doodle a short greeting. We let him go say hi for a few seconds, then we call him back to us for a super yummy treat. It definitely seems to help the new dogs relax, especially the more timid ones. (Oh and we did let our doodle go say hi again, if he wanted to.)

-Recall: having a good recall is really helpful with exhuberant doodles. You can call them back to you if the dog they are greeting is getting overwhelmed. If your doodle really LOVES dogs, like mine did, then you need to find a reward that “trumps” dogs. That way they’ll be willing to leave the new dog and come to you. For a while I carried peanut butter and canned dog food in squeeze tubes, because that was the ONLY thing that my dog loved more than other dogs! (dried lamb lung was also a favorite) Sounds crazy, but his recall got 100 times better. And every time we called him and he starting coming, we would clap and whoop and holler like he was a superstar! He loved it and it worked! :)

Understanding dog body language definitely helps too. You can read the other dogs at the park and see how they are responding to your exhuberant greeter. Here are a few links I found helpful! :)
http://www.hssv.org/docs/behavior/dog_body_language.pdf
http://www.wagntrain.com/BodyLanguage.htm
http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/diagrams.html
http://www.dogwise.com/video/video.cfm?itemid=DTB1017

Sorry this got so long! :)

[Ellen]

Thanks for these suggestions!

[Sally, Ditzy Mitzi & Sgt. Pepper]

Another note on the training methods for greetings. When we had Mitzi in a training class the behaviorist would have us walk our dogs on
leash, by our side, past each other until they learned to not stop or interact with each other. But, it does take at least two dogs on leash to train this way.

[Wendy and Eddie]

My dogs got pretty good at this, in class, with practice. They apparently don't think the rules apply to dogs they meet out in public, so I'm still working at it. I wish they were better at applying what they have learned. :-)

[Ellen]

OK, so I experienced Riley's "rudeness"....scratch....."Happy-go-lucky" attitude in action this morning. Woke up to walk Riley this morning, and a neighbor and his leash-aggressive chihuahua walked by. The chihuahua is yapping away from across the street, and Riley is literally in the air (have you seen salmon jumping out of the water while swimming upstream....that's my Riley). I immediately tried to get Riley to sit or lie down or frankly, just to even look at me. It sort of worked.....after several very long seconds. But at least it was something.

I remain hopeful. What I think is interesting (and something that I didn't think about before) is that Riley greets dogs properly at the dog park by curving toward them vs. walking straight toward them. And I THINK that he uses proper etiquette when meeting new dogs on the street when leashed. I've only noticed his wriggly butt in full action when he sees dogs that he recognizes from our condo building, at which point, Riley gets....well....riled up. So, maybe it's a new dog vs. old dog thing? In any event, I plan to observe his interactions to different dogs and with different settings more closely.

Thanks for the great discussion everybody! A lot of interesting viewpoints and insights.

[Tricia Harris]

I dont think so! I have an almost 6 mo old GD and she is a love bug just like Riley. I have noticed that she loves everyone and everything...but I think that is a doodle trait. Our neighbor has a miniature dachshund that is one week younger than Della and I keep her on the leash when they play and she is so good about it. She gives Abby kisses and wags her tail...but lets Abby crawl all over her and just submits to it. She always makes sure that the dog is friendly before being "rude". If the dog on or off leash she checks them out to see if they are receptive, then she goes all out...but if she is not getting the comfy feeling from the other dog...she keeps her distance...but tries to lure it in. I dont think Goldendoodles are rude...I think that they just live every moment to the fullest and love life!