Back yard breeders

[LucyR]

On several forums now, posters have offered/solicited breeding mates for their dogs. These individuals are clearly backyard breeders. The responses have been very polite and informative. However in view of the increasing frequency of such posts, I am thinking that we are not getting our message out there about the dangers of BYBs. These are the kinds of activities that various state legislators are trying to shut down. Rightly so. Many of these dogs will wind up abandoned, in shelters, or in the wrong kinds of homes. Dogs that have been obtained as a "gift from a relative" are not in "screened" homes. How do we know the conditions under which such dogs are kept? I am horrified at these posts and am puzzled as to why they are appearing so frequently? The popularity of doodles is growing by leaps and bounds and this is one of the very sad side effects. We have heard about this, but are now beginning to see it among our doodle owner groups. Creative/helpful suggestions/comments needed for action!

[Marianne *OZZY & ZOEY]

Too bad someone could not find a way to stop it. To me it is as bad as the puppy mills....all for the $$$$$. This may also put an end to shelter dogs too....I agree I would not want to walk any of my 3 dogs and have a male or female come up to them because they were in heat...not fair to my dogs or to me that would have to deal with that situation.

[fergie11]

I have a little bit of a problem with everyone bashing the BYB. Wasn't everyone a so-called BYB at one time anyway? And what is the difference between a BYB and the other breeders? At one time everyone decided that they really loved these dogs and thought they'd like to breed them. At one time everyone had their first litter. Everyone has to start somewhere. If they hadn't we wouldn't even have these wonderful dogs. Just because someone only wants to have maybe one litter a year, does that make them the horrible BYB? I think people should be careful before bashing these people for bringing a wonderful dog into the world. I'm sure even the small breeder is very careful (and probably more so because they become personally attached to those puppies growing up in their kitchen) about where those puppies go. Assuming the new small breeder is just after money is just as bad as assuming the doodles are bad because they are a mix. I'm a little upset about this and would like to hear how everyone else feels.
So what is the proper reason for anyone to breed this wonderful breed if not that you love your own dog and feel others should experience this same thing? I sure am glad my breeder felt this way, if she hadn't I wouldn't have Fergie now. I don't get it!

[LucyR]

Please read the earlier posts that distinguish a small breeder from a backyard breeder. Many differences. A small breeder is no different from a larger operation (puppy mill excepted) with respect to the care that is taken in breeding and care of pups. Genetic testing,screening of applicants for pups,lifetime followup-to name a few. A BYB rarely does these things and does not offer to rehome the pup if the owner can no longer keep the pup. They usually have little experience in breeding and are unfamiliar with the genetic consequences of a mismatch. Contracts are rarely signed. Hopefully others will also help to clarify these differences for you. Yes every breeder probably began with a single litter, but what went on before that litter was conceived is very different for a BYB and an informed and ethical puppy breeder.

[Leslie and Halas]

That's what I think, too. BYB doesn't necessarily mean small. The description is more related to the research and testing that goes into breeding dogs. And then the way in which the puppies are sold (contracts, applications, etc.). If a breeder does all of the responsible things, I don't really think of them as a BYB, even if they are a very small operation or only have a litter once in awhile. I consider a BYB to be a small operation that DOES NOT do all of the responsible things regarding testing, placement, etc.

[Adina P]

Hi Fergie,

I think we're talking about different things here. BYB is not a very descriptive term so there often is confusion. We are not talking about first time breeders or somebody who only had a few litters. BYB by definition is NOT a good thing.

Nobody is bashing the first time breeder--I think we mostly all agree that fewer litters is better than lots of litters.

What we are talking about when we say BYB is the person who, without educating themselves and without taking the proper measures ( health testing, etc.) decides to breed their dog for the heck of it and/or in order to make money only.

BYB = irresponsible small-scale breeder (whether this person breeds one litter or many) who does not take the proper measures to ensure healthy puppies go to forever homes.

Example: Let's say that Rosco was still intact and because everybody who comes in contact with him loves him and asks me if he will ever make puppies I decide to breed him because Labradoodles go for a lot of money nowadays. I search the newspaper and find a poodle puppy for sale and buy her in hopes of breeding the two together. I don't do any health testing because my vet has always said Rosco is very healthy and the poodle puppy now has her first heat and I don't want to miss this first chance to make some cash. I let them breed--- two months later the puppies are here... I put some ads in the newspapers and 10 people call and I sell all a puppies for $800 each. Since all I had to really pay for was a little extra food for the puppies and their first shots so I came out with quite a bit of money made. I decide to do it again at the next heat. I have a great time, I love my doggies dearly, I played with the puppies and I sold them right away. What's the wrong in this?

Here is where I went wrong:
-- I did not ask my breeder for permission to breed Rosco and thereby forfeited his health guarantee and broke the contract.
-- I did not test Rosco or the poodle for hips or eyes or any other diseases common to the to breeds. Since the poodle puppy was less than a year old I had no real health history on her. for all I know she did have bad hips that show up in a year. poodles also can carry a bleeding disorder--- but I didn't test the poodle so who knows if I passed anything on to the puppies.
-- I gave no health guarantee on the puppies just a three day puppy guarantee. if any of the puppy families find out their dog has hip dysplasia or anything else in the future there on their own. I'm not taking them back. If they end up in the shelter, not my problem.

I don't know if this description help, but when we say BYB we are referring to in ear responsible breeder not just to somebody who breeds for a hobby or professionally doing all the right testing, etc.

[Adina P]

Sorry for all the spelling errors "irresponsible" not "ear responsible" !! I am speaking into a voice recognition program and sometimes it 'hears' wrong!

[Wendy and Eddie]

I was puzzling over that! :-)

[2itampco1w9fa]

I wondered about that too :-)

[2chllbeee55wv]

Hi Fergie,
I will respond as a new breeder just finished selling my first litter and I have a fairly small operation with only 1 girl old enough to breed right now. First difference is all the care, time and study that went into the decision to breed in the first place, then finding someone to study under-I worked closely with another breeder for over 2 years before breeding my first litter, then was all the health testing-hips, heart, eyes, elbows, thyroid-my first dog failed on the heart and was spayed even though one vet and her breeder said I could breed her anyway. I chose not too as for me the health of the dogs I produce is extremely important. Next is the contract, warranty and rehome policy. Most BYB's don't do any of that they just want to sell the puppies-I held on to the last pups until they were 16 weeks old and many other breeders even longer than that-if you don't have the right homes you wait and continue to feed, train and socialize the puppies for all of the time you have them. It is a lot of work and not all of it fun! I have 3 breeding girls and 2 boys most of them in guardian homes and all but 2 are not mature yet or have not completed the required testing. Many back yard breeders only have 1 or 2 litters so they think testing is not important or warranties don't need to be in place, and many feel that once the puppies leave their job is done. NOT true! I have made a lifetime committment to all the puppies I have brought into this world and to their families. Yes all breeders start with the first litter but it is all the preparation ahead of time that sets them apart from BYBs and size of your program means much less than the standards you hold to.
the bottom line proper reason to breed is passion about the breed and a desire to improve it this is only done thru careful testing and record keeping-making tough decisions about when not to breed or who not to breed. If I had been in it for the money I would be in trouble cuz I did not make a profit on this litter -too many things went wrong and required ER visits and additional x-rays and ultrasounds and meds and on and on but I will forge ahead because the results were fabulous! and I know where each of my puppies are and who has them and if they ever need to be rehomed they come back to me.
A breeder whether small or large is committed to doing all the testing and abiding by those results when making breeding choices, they use applications to screen buyers, and require contracts to be signed and offer a minimum of a 2 yr. health warranty and a rehome guarantee. They rarely advertise in the paper and never sell to pet shops or brokers or surrender pups to shelters. A BYB has a great, loveable dog that they would like to breed because their friends want a puppy just like it and well "I might as well make some money" they don't do the testing because it is expensive and they are only having a few litters.

[Marianne *OZZY & ZOEY]

Fergie my reply is not to upset anyone, just from experience I bought a soft coated wheaten terrier 4 years ago from a BYB and I paid good money for her too...These dogs were in high demand in the tri state area. From over breeding and not having the right health testing done and proper care for the parents my dog had a genitic defect that I did not find out about until 5 days before she died of pancreatitis...this was from the breeding...I spent $6,000.00 in a 5 day period to test her and treat her to try and save her. Because she was a therapy dog as well and tested for health for her hospital visits and always healthy.... the vets did additional testing for me to give me answers for her untimely death.. That was the outcome...the breeding...It is not just about money....it is also about the BROKEN HEARTS that are left behind as well. Sorry but I still cry and miss her and don't know if my heart will ever heal..That is why my opinion is so strong and will never change.....I am happy and thankful for those that have happy endings, again I am sorry if I come across so strong. She was my baby.

[LucyR]

Thank you Marianne for sharing your story. The heartbreak of the owners of sick doggies is something that hasn't been brought up in this post. I am so sorry for your loss and understand totally how you feel. If anything would happen to my Ozzie, I just don't know if I could go on-he is so much a part of my life now. Your story reminds me of a visit to the vet one time. I was there with Ozzie for his routine care. A lady and her children were there with a very sick little cocker spaniel puppy. The pup looked so lethargic and the kids were crying. I asked the lady about the pup and she said they had bought it from a breeder in Texas, sight unseen, and had the doggie shipped to California. I later asked the vet if the pup made it and she said "no, it had parvo and was too far gone." It cost the family upwards of $1000 to care for that pup in its last days on earth. I have a life-size picture of the "breeder" giving any refunds. The image of that mom and kids and puppy is still in my mind. I think that is when I began to realize the harm that these BYBs and puppy mills are doing to families who only want a pup to care for and love.

[Marianne *OZZY & ZOEY]

Thanks for the understanding Lucy, I would not want any money back, and if that breeder offered I would only have gotten more upset..I only wanted my dog....I guess that is why my opinion is so strong...until your heart is broken and you hold your baby in your arms ( because you won't lay her on the table) to be put to sleep and then hold her until she has turned cold...the vet having to help get her out of my arms....and saying good-bye at such a young unexpected age is so unfair. Now that the tears are still in my eyes as I can never forget my girl that gave so much to those children dying of cancer and the love to me....I have made the choice to do my research on breeders and Ozzy and Zoey are going to continue on in her memory with the therapy work.