Biting & Bruising my sons!!!

[Chris & Boys]

Fozzy Bear is now almost 7 months old. When he wants to play with Boomer, he grabs him at the base of the tail or by the ears and tugs. Unfortunately, when he wants to play with my sons, he grabs at thier arms and legs, mostly. Well, his jaw is so strong that he is leaving bruises and scratches on thier arms. I thought he would be over this mouthing thing by now. I am worried that if this continues, I will have a serious problem on my hands. He knows what "no biting" means, but when he wants to play he just won't quit. He will stop but just bite again and again. I am wondering if a electric training collar will help? I need quick solutions, this is getting totally out of control.

[Lynne B]

How old are your kids, and how do they play with the dog? Can you try to observe their interaction with the dog when they don't think you are watching? Alot of kids engage in really rough play with puppies and the puppy gets overexcited and plays back. The easiest thing to do is to explain to the kids they have to be calm around the dog, and you need to enforce that. When the dog jumps or scratches or bites, the kids need to stand up turn their back on the dog and cross their arms until the dog is calm. The dog needs to learn that the only time it gets attention is when it is calm, not jumping and scratching.

Please do not get an e-collar, unless you really understand how those work and how the dog thinks, if you use one to get the dog to quit playing rough with your kids you might end up with an aggressive dog and a kid in the hospital getting stitches

[Chris & Boys]

My boys are 9 and 11. It is not how they play with him, but how he plays. They may just be walking out of the bedroom in the a.m. and he wants to play and get their attention, so he starts jumping and pulling on them. They don't really play rough with him. I even got them to stop playing tug of war. Mostly at home, they take him for walks, throw the ball or he chases them. They do not have to be paying attention to them. They may be playing with eachother and he gets wild.

They have tried to ignore his behavior, but he will continue to pull on their limbs and jump on them long enough to hurt them.

I am afraid if I don't get an e-collar I will end up in the ER anyway.

[Lynne B]

put the dog on a tether whenever the kids are playing with him. If he plays rough the kids are to immediately stand up turn around and walk out of reach of the puppy. They are not to talk to the puppy, look at it, nothing- they need to remain turned away ignoring the dog until it is calm. When they return to the puppy if it starts to play rough again, they do the same thing. They may end up doing this 50 times before the dog 'gets it'.

If you get an 'e-collar' when exactly do you plan to zap the dog? When it plays rough, or when it gets near the kids or what? Those things are dangerous in the hands of an untrained person, you may very well end up convincing your dog that the discomfort from getting zapped is caused by the kids - and as I said before you might end up with a dangerous dog

[Chris & Boys]

Of course, I would be the only one who uses the remote. I would use it only when he is trying to bite/grab them. It is happening so frequently now, it feels like we have been battling this so long.

[Lynne Fowler-Oodles of Doodles]

Chris, as others have already stated, he is too young and that is a ridiculous way to train any dog. IMO!

Be the pack leader and train him!!

There are many, MANY resources for training a puppy, even here on DK.

Pick up a copy of Tamar Gellars, "The Loved Dog" and educated yourself. Watch Cesar Milan or Google it,

but

ZAPPING OR BEATING A DOG, IS WRONG AND ALL HE WILL LEARN IS FEAR AND PAIN. TRAIN WITH LOVE AND HE WILL LEARN LOVE.

In My OPINION!

[Chris & Boys]

I did not say I WAS going to use a collar or HIT him, I was asking for opinions. I NEVER HAVE HIT HIM! That is ridiculous!!! OMG - think before you type.

[Lynne Fowler-Oodles of Doodles]

OMG, others said it ...

[Chris & Boys]

You're reply was directly to me.

[Lynne Fowler-Oodles of Doodles]

ZAPPING OR BEATING A DOG, IS WRONG AND ALL HE WILL LEARN IS FEAR AND PAIN. TRAIN WITH LOVE AND HE WILL LEARN LOVE.
Was directed to the people telling you to do it!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I am glad you clarified that you are not advocating hitting the dog with the newspaper, flyer, or anything else.
One important factor in using "positive punishment", as I understand it, is that the dog not connect the thing he is trying to avoid (i.e. the sound, pull, etc.) with you, but only with the behavior. Obviously, a hand coming at him with any object would clearly cause him to avoid hands. In time, this can lead to hand-shyness and fear-biting. Children using that method would really be a disaster.
Thanks again for clarifying. I am very relieved.

[Joy Originator of GiantSchnoodles]

Hi R& J, I did not judge you as an abusive trainer. In the article I write on biting nipping puppies, I even recomend a chin chuck. You can probably find that article on my chat forum at www.GiantSchnoodles.com I did not post it here because there is so much advice being given peicemeal without an understanding of the whole culture of the dog. The children are being hurt. The culture of the dog requires a strong leader. I know Chris that you are doing your best but the training needs to be done within the context of understanding the culture. I am not adverse to an ecollar in professional hands for a specific purpose. ie, we do rattlsnake aversion with an ecollar. However, there should be no capital punishment for dogs or children if the dog or child does not understand what s/he is supposed to do. In this case, i don't think the dog or the family or Chirs understands what they are supposed to do. At 7 months old when children are being injured, it will take more than advice on a forum, no matter how well intentioned to resolve these problems. There are so many different theories of training being offered here. Operative conditioning, clicker training, whacking, ignoring, Milan, Geller. You just can't mix all these together & hope to get a good result, especially if children are being injured in the mean time. Also when the owner is in a position of liability if the dog bites someone else's child. I come from hard knocks. One of my rescue dogs rushed a young girl and the teeth brushed her leaving a small bruise. I was sued for $30,000 & she won. Fortunately it was at my place of business & I was insured. That insurance was subsequently cancelled. Owning a large dog is a big responsibility. One needs to educate themselves. One must understand the dog culture. the dog must be properly trained. It is never acceptable for teeth to touch skin or clothing of a human. My puppies are trained on "no mouth give kisses" before they are 8 weeks old & go to their forever homes. My puppy parents attend a seminar to continue the training. They receive lifetime training advice on my chat forum at www.GiantSchnoodles.com . My rescues and anyone who wants training advice can request it on my chat forum. It concerns me when I read that so many older puppies are biting their owners. When a puppy is 7 month old & still biting, the puppy parents have not, for whatever reason, done what's needed. Usually it isn't from lack of trying but at that point they need a professional training. I have to call it as I see it. When I see danger, I call it. I have retrained several older puppies in this situation. But the puppy parents must also be trained. I then continue with support on line to puppy parents. I'm sorry if this comes on strong. but that's how I see it. I hope Chris that you understand where I'm coming from. Its from a place of experience & caring. Puppy love from Joy & furry folk

[Debbie, Brianna and Duncan]

7months! he is still a puppy. Please no e collar...call a trainer fast! Puppy mouthing is normal. So is jumping up...he needs training! I feel for you, really I do and those scratches don't look all that bad, you should see my arm from my Bunny Rabbit. I have four small girls and four dogs. Learn the 'OFF' command now! Google it if you have to, and most important also, 'Redirect' the mouth with something appropriate for him to bite on. Have your kids hand him a very tasty bone every time he puts his mouth on them.....this is also helpful if he is chewing on something he should not. This too shall pass (with training!) This is a good video I linked for you, but there are thousands you can search and be helpful
Oh also if you need to do something quick until you can find a trainer/training.....kid gate him off from the boys when they first wake up...then set up the training session with the boys after they have had breakfast, etc.....just a suggestion.

http://www.expertvillage.com/video/4352_puppy-mouthing-biting.htm