Car Crates, one more time?

[Stacy]

I know, I've been procrastinating on this for over a year, but I just couldn't decide what to put in the back of the car for the girls. But I've been using a wire crate for the last few months and I'm ready to upgrade. The wire crate rattles when I drive (it's not that safe either) and it's about to drive me batty. I'm narrowing down on sizes though, so... help? 

Currently I have a 36" long X 22" wide X 24" tall wire crate. And Maggie curls up in it and is happy to ride. She loves to go. I look back and she's curled up in half the crate.

They say that dogs should have less space in the car crate because in an accident there's not as much room for them to bounce around. She also wouldn't be in there for excessively long periods at a time. 

Katie has a crate about the size of the Roughland intermediate, and I tried Maggie in it. She fits, but she was looking at me like, why are you stuffing me in this crate? But, if we were about to ride in the car, she would probably be happier about it. 

So my decision is between the RL large and intermediate crates. I think I can get 2 intermediates side by side in the back, and that would be nice because I think there will be times I want to take 2 at the same time. 

RL Large dimensions: 34"x22"x25"H

Intermediate: 30"x19.5"x22"H (those are all interior dimensions) 

Maggie is 24" at the shoulder, so she would pretty much have to lay down in the intermediate. But she can't really stand comfortably in the large either. And she does lay down when we ride. I'm not sure if I should worry about the height or not.

I'm just struggling with if it's cruel to stuff her in the intermediate or if we need to stick with the large. 

I already have significantly more crates than dogs. I would love to get this right on the first try.

Thanks!

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

I have no idea since I've never crated a dog in the car...but what do you think of those gate things for hatchbacks/SUVs instead of crating?  We are getting one ASAP for DH's car since Riley now rides in the trunk.  A crate is an interesting option too but I don't think one her size would fit unless sideways and it would be too awkward to get her in and out.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The dog can still bounce around back there, depending on the size of the space and the dog, and if there is a collision or even a very hard stop, the dog can hit the glass pretty hard. It would probably work with a harness tethered to something like you do with a baby seat. 

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

We have a regular harness where the two D rings on the shoulder can be clasped together so pulling force goes there instead of through the buckle, that might work, combined with a braided steel cable looped around one of the tie downs in the trunk.  Wouldn't even really need the partition (or just a mesh one) if it's a short cable, just enough for her to stand up.  Actually I have a 3 ft steel looped cable already that might work.

[Stacy]

Honestly, I worry about a roll over and then ejection through the side windows. I know I'm more paranoid than a lot of the other people, but I see so many people texting and driving. And every time traffic slows on the highway I'm afraid that I'm going to get creamed. 

I've gone over the pros and cons of all the various options like 1000 times and there are enough pros and cons of each that I can't just make a decision.  The perfect solution would probably be to get a mini van, but that's not happening.

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

Depends on the car I suppose too, DH had a Rav4 and the trunk side windows are pretty small.  Honestly I am far less worried about a serious crash than just a regular fender bender since those are more likely and could still result in a projectile dog.  Not to be morbid but if a crash is that bad then I don't think any safety measures are a guarantee the dog will come out alive...with all the rigorous testing to make cars safe for people there are still severe injuries and deaths in those kinds of crashes.

[Stacy]

So, you're right that there are still injuries and deaths in crashes. But in even moderate crashes, the difference in injuries between people who are unrestrained, seat belt restrained, and then restrained in appropriate car seats, the difference is really significant. Most of the kids who come in who were appropriately restrained in car seats don't have a scratch on them. Compare that to people with seat belts who have internal abdominal injuries and people who were unrestrained and ere ejected from the car and have massive head injuries. I really want my dogs to be the ones in the car seat. Sometimes I think I just see too much. 

I don't know if you've seen this, but I think that the dog restraint testing videos are interesting. 

https://www.centerforpetsafety.org/test-results/harnesses/2013-harn...

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

I would never trust dog "seatbelts", to me they have always seemed less sturdy than a combination of a good regular harness and something strong to attach it to the vehicle seat belt.

The setup I use in my car (where Riley has to ride in the front seat) is to use a harness and to directly clasp the D-rings at her shoulder blades to the shoulder belt of the seatbelt.  That way it's almost as if she is seated like a person so the seatbelt should engage, assuming the harness doesn't just break open like those doggie seatbelts.  Maybe a mountain climbing harness?

In my sedan there's actually no way she can be in a crate since there are 2 carseats for kids in the back.

I'll talk with DH about using a crate in the trunk of his car though, maybe we can find something that would work.  The tether and partition would at least be better than nothing though.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

That's how I feel too. "Something is better than nothing". 
There are so many discussions on line where people say "Only this one harness passes all the crash tests." 

Jasper's harness is not that one. I still think he is much safer in the car than if I used nothing. He might not stay on the seat if we were in a major crash, but he also wouldn't be ejected from the car. Which is truly the worst case scenario. 

[Adina P]

I bought a Kurgo brand harness at a pet store, but when i read the fine print it's still only tested at 30mph.  Good enough for around town, but who knows if it would hold up at higher speeds.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Mine is also a Kurgo. 
But I only ever drive "around town", lol. I do go over 30, but not by much. I never drive highways. 

I would also think that the safety rating of your car would be a factor, and things like side airbags, etc.

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

That's the thing.. pet seatbelts aren't regulated at all (as far as I know), neither is any "crash testing" they might have done.

I actually toyed with the idea of stripping some of the straps/hardware off a carseat we had that was expiring and using it somehow but I changed my mind.  At least those materials and parts have definitely been crash tested, even if "expired" I'm sure they're probably stronger than most things made for pets.  I have another carseat expiring in January though so maybe I'll explore the idea further before I trash that one.

We'll be getting a second SUV or crossover sometime soon (my sedan is from 2001 lol, it's nearing the end of its long life) so having a good hatchback/trunk doggie setup will be nice for both vehicles.

Riley's harness is something like this one (magically it was Luna's harness and somehow fits Riley who is twice her size.. lol, it was set at the smallest setting on Luna and near largest setting on Riley).  

I like that you can loop something through both metal loops on the back so that in a crash you aren't relying on the strength of the buckle since most are plastic.  I know that stitching is often what breaks but less likely to break than a plastic buckle I would think.  My only issue with this is that it has no padding at the front, as she finishes growing if we need a new one (probably will) that will be one thing I look for.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

This is the one Jasper has, you might look at this. For one thing, it has metal fasteners, which seem sturdier to me and more able to withstand stress, and the way you fasten them is more complicated than just pushing one piece into the other, which also seems less likely to come apart in an accident. And it does have the chest peice, although it's not really padded:
https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/kurgo-black-tru-fi...