Corrections and Collars

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Spud has a sensitive windpipe and trachea. Every time we start obedience training with a regular collar, a small choker, a martingale ( this time ) we have to stop. This last trainer recommended I purchase a pinch.
Has anyone used the correction method with a harness or another type of collar NOT around the throat?

Any other method or suggestion would be appreciated. This last trainer I looked into would ONLY use a choke. His throat is not worth the training. We may just settle for a dog who jumps on the elderly and children!

[Nina, Phil, Harlow & Lacey]

I have not trained with anything other than a collar. But one of the other dogs (Reese) in our last class wore a Sporn Non-pull mesh harness. It seemed to work fine for training and Reeses parents were able to correct her. Both Reese's parents and the trainer recommended it. So, I bought one for Sherlock (one of the beagle brothers) because he would pull so hard on his leash when we walked that he would wheeze, hack and cough. The harness works GREAT for our walks. It kind of works along the same theory of a choke collar. When the dog pulls the padded straps that come up under the front legs draw tighter if the dog pulls. It immediately stopped Sherlock's tugging and the accompaning wheezing from the choker. Overall, I would recommend giving the Sporn a try. You can buy them at Petsmart and I have seen them a Pet Supply Plus.

Here is the link to Sporn's website with a picture of the harness.

[Adina P]

I think if you're going to avoid corrections...then avoid corrections or use a prong (which doesn't tighten on the windpip). Trying to correct with anything other than a collar MADE for corrections just doesn't sound like a very effective option because unless your dog is super sensitive (emotionally) or cares a TON about what YOU want ... it just won't accomplish much but end up seeming like nagging.

I'm curious how this sensitive windpipe was diagnosed. Done correctly a choke chain doesn't 'choke' during corrections. It's a quick pop and release...even less tiring to a throat than a dog that pulls on a flat collar.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Halti or Gentle Leader. They fit on the dog's muzzle and are especially good for dogs who pull. They is a Halti harness also. We use the face one for our Springer. It really eliminates most pulling by the dog and is not on the throat.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

We use a Gentle Leader now and it works great. With the Gentle Leader I have his attention and most commands are done without hesitation--sit, down, heel. ALTHOUGH ..... When the gentle leader is off, he goes right back to the same behavior. Pulling while walking, jumping on my 83 year-old mother, and kids. The trainer said, a gentle leader is a " Container, not a Trainer" and does not want to train with it on.

Tonight I tried to trick him. We went for a walk with the Gentle Leader, but I attached the leash to a collar. He was real nice for a block and then realized he was not attached and pulled me right into the ditch. :)

Adina, I don't know the extent, no formal tests were done, but the vet said, " Don't use a collar with this dog", when I complained about the symptoms he was having. I can ask more this week when he goes in on Friday because these symtoms still exist and are aggravated when I use a collar.

We also use the hailti harness, with a release. That calms a walk just a little and that is all.

Maybe I should just wait till he matures. I may be expecting a lot from a puppy. He knows what is right--but chooses when he wants to do the command.

I'm seriously leaning to the prong. It was explained that this is the correction a mother uses on her pups. I used a choke on my mastiffs and labs and it works but I don't think this would help this throat situation. I know that they need to be high on the head and I would have to be sure it was placed correctly. Impossible if I was trying to correct in a hurry.

[Adina P]

I agree with the 'container not trainer' mantra...but I'd say that is the case with any tool. Find a METHOD you believe in and work those tools by the method. I don't think you should use this trainer at all...not if you can't use the tools she uses as HER method will fail for you because you won't be able to implement it for Spud. like choke chains but not without a solid method in their use. You need to find a trainer who is AWESOME at using the tools you CAN use.

There is a very simple way to keep the chain high on the neck. Simply put a key ring onto the running end of the choke chain in a link in front of the dead ring that will keep it from slipping down. It is JUST a place holder to keep it tighter and up higher. You do NOT attach anything to the key ring.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

We are not good trainers so we are not expert at all, but we cannot get our Springer not to pull on walks. It is like he has ADHD (attention deficits) and although he knows what to do, he can only remember it for a short time. I do think someone really good could correct this but we don't seem to be able to do so ourselves. In our dog classes, the trainers want either a regular collar or a halti type collar or harness. We have tried the technique from TV where you stop as soon as they pull and you don't proceed until they stop pulling and sit. Gordie doesn't care if you stop or walk. He loves being with his people. I hope you have better luck.
PS My daughter-in-law has the most luck with Gordie and walking. He behaves pretty well for her - she is our magic dog whisperer (are you reading this Teresa?) but it only works when SHE walks him; it doesn't transfer back to us.

[Adina P]

Did you use the DD program with your springer? I can't imagine him pulling if you followed that precisely and didn't do ANY walking except for the training until he improved.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Yes, Skip did. I didn't mention that in my post because it isn't for puppies and I think Spud is still a puppy. Gordie still pulls. After the DD training he is better for longer but...... I truly think he is ADHD - we realize now that we got him from a BYB - home raised, one litter, but NO checking of genetic heritage. We paid a breeder price for him too! We were ignorant. He truly does better with my daughter-in-law, Teresa, but she has an amazing way with dogs. Gordie gets over-excited about everything. His surgery rehab progress: We can take him up the stairs now on-leash but we are to go slowly - that is a joke, but we try! We take him out to go potty and he even pulls for that. He pushed his pen across the room and tried to get it out the door when he thought we were leaving him (we were trying to).

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Above
Did you use the DD program with your springer?
Above
Yes, Skip did. I didn't mention that in my post because it isn't for puppies and I think Spud is still a puppy.
Okay girls, now you have my curiosity? DD? Double D's. Get Spud augmented? If I get him breast implants he can't pull or jump because he will be too heavy and the boobs will weigh him down? Oh and barking--I did not mention all the barking. Maybe DD's will be so big it will block the bark too!
Spud is being neutered on Friday so I can ask that they save those things and just implant them high on the neck. :)
Okay. Sounds good to me.

[Kyoko]

http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/omgcheck-out-neuticals?pag...

Check out this post from some time ago. Spud may be interested.....

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

NO Kyoko. I saw this. NO. I will be so glad when these huge black danglees are off this white dogs bottom. Looks real funny. People Stare at his bottom too! How rude. But I really can't blame them. It just looks real strange and almost pornographic!

[Kyoko]

LOL!