Goldendoodle with IBD

[M Blair]

Hello everyone,

I am a new member.  I have two goldendoodles; Baci who is 10, and Coco who is 9.  We've had them since they were puppies.

My post today is concerning Coco who was diagnosed with IBD (Lymphoeosiophilic) in September, 2016, by a specialist.  Coco had been showing signs of IBD long ago by going through periods of vomiting blood.  Her stools were always fine (except when given some medications).  Coco also has environmental allergies.

Her current medications are Adequan (for joints), as she's had 2 TPLO surgeries and Cytopoint shots every 5 weeks for allergies (Apoquel gives her very frequent UTI's).  She also gets a B-12 shot every 4 to 6 weeks.  I have noticed that when her allergies flare, so does her IBD.  They seem to go hand in hand.  The seemingly odd thing is that Coco's IBD has flared at this exact same time of year for the past 3 years.

In the past, for Coco's IBD, we tried feeding her a 'hypoallergenic' dog food.  She developed horrible diarrhea because her intestines were absorbing too much water, so she's not able to eat the 'split protein' foods.  A novel protein for Coco is going to have to be VERY novel as she's had lots of different proteins.  I tried Rayne Nutrition Kangaroo and Potato for a food elimination trial, but she could not handle that, either.  For medicines, the vet suggested treating her symptomatically with Prednisone.  That worked the first 2 times, but when she flared again, Coco started having bloody diarrhea when given Prednisone.  I tried Prednisone again some time later, and she did the same thing after the second dose (20 mg).  Now she cannot take Prednisone.

Currently, the recommendation is to give her either Azathioprine or Atopica.  Since Atopica is very expensive, the vet suggested Azathioprine.  I know some of the side effects of these drugs, and I know they aren't good.  I started Azathioprine on Monday, and we're already down to an every other day dose.  She will have more bloodwork drawn in another week.  Coco is also getting Carafate twice a day and Zofran.

Coco does not want to eat.  She is hungry, goes to her bowl, then backs away.  She hasn't vomited for the past 4 days, which is a plus.  Other than not eating, she's acting pretty good, rather frisky.

I'm very worried about, well, everything.  I feel helpless.  I don't know if I'm doing to right thing.  I've tried going to the only 2 holistic vets in my area.  One waved a crystal over Coco.  That may be fine for some who believe in that, but that's not for me.  The other holistic vet talked to me about homeopathy, then charged me $100 for talking to me about it without telling me there'd be a charge just for all the blabbing she did.  So now here I am with medicines with scary side effects and a dog who is going through yet another period of not eating.

If anyone can tell me of some other direction to try, their experiences, point me to helpful posts, anything, I'd be grateful.

Sincerely,

Missy

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Mirtazapine is used in humans also so you might be able to shop around for it.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You can shop around for most of your dog's drugs. I get Jack's prednisone at CVS, it's cheaper than the vet. On the other hand, the vet is cheaper for his pain meds. 

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

It did help Murph when he was refusing to eat.

[M Blair]

Was Murphy also nauseated at the time you gave him the appetite stimulant?  I'm afraid to do too awfully much but at the same time I feel I need to do something.  I got her to eat a little bit tonight.  Last night, she ate a decent amount of food, but this morning, she refused.

We went to Costco and purchased VSL#3 and I got Zantac.  I have already given her one Zantac and will start the probiotic tomorrow morning.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

It was difficult to tell exactly why he was refusing to eat.  I do think part of it was nausea and part was that he was pretty bored with his food, and until I found the pure rabbit my only option was the hydrolyzed food.  I keep the mirtazapine in the house in case I need it.  Murph is on lots of meds, and when he's flaring he's on even more. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

And Zignature makes a kangaroo based food that's a complete diet, it comes in both dry and canned formulas, maybe a little of the canned as a topper would help her to eat. 

Wild Calling also has both dry and canned kangaroo formulas: http://wildcalling.com/

I think both would be less expensive than Rayne. 

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Karen is right....all IBD dog Moms sound hysterical from time to time. Believe me I was REALLY hysterical while we were trying to get Murphy under control.  I am so curious about why there was a reaction to the hydrolyzed food....it's confusing to me that the immune system would even be able to recognize the protein and react.  When you were transitioning what else were you feeding?  What were her symptoms?  I really think you need to get her to eat something...my experience says the longer they go without eating the worst their nausea is.  I might try the crocodile, and I really like Wild Callings because it is pure...only one ingredient.

I knew almost instantly when we switched Murphy to the Royal Canin HP that it helped....his symptoms pretty much disappeared...but we were also introducing the meds at the same time.  My problem was after a short time he was bored and wouldn't eat it.  That is when we started topping with the Wild Callings Rabbit.  There are also pure rabbit treats and when I'm desperate I crush them and sprinkle the crumbs over his meal.

[M Blair]

I cannot for the life of me remember the medical term the vet used to describe what happened to Coco with the Royal Canin HP.  It was around the beginning of this year, and I was feeding her The Honest Kitchen.  Coco was also taking Mycophenolate for IBD which she was unable to continue (not related to the HP food).  The vet (dermatologist) suggested that Coco's itching could be food related and suggested the hydrolyzed protein from Royal Canin.  I carefully switched Coco over a two week period.  When I got to 100% HP food, Coco started having bloody diarrhea.  The dermatologist told me that it was rare, but some dogs cannot handle the hydrolyzed foods.  When I switched her back to her regular food, the diarrhea went away.  I was quite surprised as well as I was really hoping that it would have worked.  (The dermatologist and internal medicine specialist work in the same building and consulted with each other.)

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Wow...that's excellent that your Specialists are working together on this.  I also have another Doodle (Guinness) who has IBS (much easier to handle than IBD).  I feed him Honest Kitchen and for a long time Murphy also ate Honest Kitchen supplemented with home cooking.  Guinness does really well on it, but it didn't work for Murphy.  I regret that for a long time I kept trying different foods with Murph trying to find one that didn't make him sick.  I think that introducing all those different proteins at a time when his immune system was in overdrive has caused him to be reactive now to just about everything.  I'm so grateful for the Wild Calling option....I really hated that he was eating nothing but hydrolyzed food.  What does your IM Specialist suggest for food?

[M Blair]

That's so interesting.  Our other doodle, Baci, had GI issues when he was a puppy.  Food coming out smelled just like it did going in.  We switched him to a raw diet, and his issues cleared up.  That was 9 years ago or so, but he no longer eats a raw diet.

What did The Honest Kitchen do to Murphy?  You may be onto something about switching proteins when the immune system is in overdrive.

Coco didn't want to eat most of yesterday and is refusing food this morning.  I'm feeling nervous about how long she can go without food.

The IM suggested staying on the same food, which is currently THK Embark, until we see if this new medicine (Azathioprine) works.  However, Coco doesn't want to eat anything.  A side effect of Azathioprine can be GI issues.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Often, the improvement you may see when switching from any kibble to a "raw" diet is not due to the food being raw, but rather to the higher moisture content and higher digestibility. You would most likely get the same improvement from any moist diet, raw or not. High moisture content plays a big role in digestive issues.

My guy can't tolerate jerky-type foods of any kind. He can eat cooked sweet potatoes but not dehydrated sweet potatoes, boiled chicken but not chicken jerky. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Also, it's pretty well known that in IBD, any protein you introduce while there is still active inflammation present is most likely going to be what is called a "sacrificial protein", meaning that the dog is going to develop a sensitivity to it and you won't be able to use any more, so it's wasted. That's why you usually wait until the immuno-suppressant drugs have gotten the inflammation under control before starting a new diet. And you never, ever do a slow food transition with an IBD dog, for this reason.