Help! Loose poop advice please.

[Photinie Koutsavlis]

Hi there! I am new to this forum, so please bear with me.  I have a 2 years old tiny female f1b golden doodle – her name is Pixie.

Pixie has had ongoing diarrhea, and soft bowel movements since prior to Christmas.  We have been to the vet a number of times, where she has been prescribed, probiotic, metronidazole and tylosin off and on – once off of the meds, her runny poop seems to return.  Even while on the medications, her poop vacillates from runny, to formed but soft, to formed and cow pie like at the end.  I also find that when she goes more than once a day, they become softer.

We have done the wellness blood test as well as the b12 folate test as well, as it all came back good.  We are also treating for worms, just in case that is what she has and wasn’t picked up by the testing.

The vet put her on the Royal Canin low GI food and then on the vegetarian food – although Pixie didn’t want any of that.  I also looked at the ingredients and they were mostly chemical so I wasn’t too fond of having her on that.  We are currently giving the Ancana Pacifica Pilchard fish based food a try.  She likes it a lot better, but her poops are once again a gamble on how they will be on any given day.  I understand that sometimes it takes months to rid of any possible allergens or food intolerance that she may have from her body.

We have limited her diet to only her kibble and vet prescribed vegetarian treats…and possibly anything she licks up from the kitchen floor!

Otherwise, she is happy, playful, energetic and a great little tiny doodle that loves her family, kids, balls and running with her friends.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this, or any advice you can suggest to this exasperated mom J

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Hi Photinie, welcome to DK. 

We have many, many discussions about the kinds of GI issues Pixie is experiencing, mainly in the Food Group and in the Health & Medical Issues Group. Please join and you can search our discussions there about others' experiences.

Two things: It is very, very important that any dog who has GI issues be on a good probiotic, especially when they have been on metronidazole, and you need to continue giving the probiotics after the meds are finished. Many vets sell you Fortiflora, which is not a good probiotic, and they also don;t usually tell you that it needs to be given several hours apart from the meds, and continued for weeks if not months afterwards. Proviable is a very good probiotic which you can order online. However, the best one for serious GI issues like Pixie's is a human probiotic called VSL#3. This has been extensively studied in dogs it has been a Godsend for many of us here whose dogs have GI issues and diseases. You can buy it at many human pharmacies; it must be kept refrigerated. I strongly suggest you look into getting it for Pixie. She needs to build up a colony of good gut bacteria for things to improve with her stools.

The other thing is that if you don;t want to use an RX food, and I can understand your feelings about that, you must use a limited ingredient formula, preferably one which contains a single "novel" protein (one the dog hasn't eaten before). You also want a food that is lower in fat and grain free. While the Pacific Pilchard is one of Acana's LID foods from it's singles line, it still contains lot of ingredients that may be hard on Pixie's digestive system, and at 15% fat, it's not as low as it might be. I suggest you try Wellness Simple Solutions Salmon; it's much lower in fat and contains only 3 main ingredients. It''s worked very well for many dogs here with similar problems. 

Hope this helps. 

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Exactly what Karen said! Our experience: 

When we got Charlie last June as a re-home, he had parasites.  He was also under the stress of being re-homed and we had to take him with us on a previously planned vacation.  He was given Panacur for the parasites.  Then Metronidazole  twice. We used a probiotic - Proviable, but he continued to have problems - even getting us up in the middle of the night with explosive diarrhea.  We took Karen's advice and put him on a limited ingredient grain-free kibble and VSL#3 which we found at CVS/Target pharmacies.  We kept him on the probiotic for a month after everything else cleared.  We transitioned him back to his original kibble, Orijen.  In the months that followed, he got loose stools twice (not the explosive stuff) again and we gave him a couple of weeks of the VSL#3 and he was back to normal. 

I wish you the same magic we had in treating Charlie.

[Photinie Koutsavlis]

Thank you kindly to you both for your advice - it has been quite the journey for us, and of course want to do what is in Pixie's best health interest.

While Pixie's poop has gotten better over time, and especially since shifting her to a fish-based food, there are still moments when she can have a 3/4 of a formed (somewhat softer) bowel movement then a little bit of what looks like soft serve ice cream to finish it.  This also happens if she goes more often during the day.

I will definitely look up Proviable - we had been on fortiflora, but hadn't really seen any positive results.  As for the VSL#3, I will be ignorant and ask whether that is perfectly safe for canine consumption.  I live in Canada, so will see if it is available at our pharmacies.

Thank you again.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Not only is VSL#3 perfectly safe for dogs, but it was the subject of a $100,000 study (funded by some of AKC breed clubs whose breeds are prone to inflammatory bowel disease) at Iowa State veterinary school; the purpose of the study was to determine if the use of this probiotic could decrease the need for drugs in managing IBD in dogs, and the study showed that to be the case. Several of us here have dogs who have been diagnosed with this incurable and frustrating immune-mediated disease, and our internal medicine vet specialists have all recommended VSL#3. I can tell you that after two weeks on the VSL#3, we were able to lower the dosage for one of the drugs he was taking and completely eliminate another drug. I know of at least half a dozen doodles here who are taking or have taken the VSL#3 probiotic and not a single one has had any type of adverse affect, and all have had great improvement with loose stools and other digestive issues.  
At the very least, I would get the Proviable. Fortiflora is made by Purina and contains some really nasty flavoring agents and other poor quality ingredients. 

[Photinie Koutsavlis]

Thanks again - I will definitely look into both.  Do you keep the dogs on this probiotic for a long-term basis or until there is a noticeable and consistent change?

Also, as it is a human probiotic, how do you determine dosage?

Sorry for all the questions.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

For dogs like mine, who have permanent serious GI disease, the probiotics are used forever, lol. It's not a bad idea to give probiotics to any dog on a regular basis, but you don't need one like VSL#3, which is very powerful and very pricey. Many people give plain unflavored yogurt to their dogs, just to keep their guts healthy. Many people take probiotics and/or eat yogurt daily for the same reason. 

For dogs who just need to recover from some digestive problems, it's best to give the probiotics for at least a couple of weeks after things have improved.

Dosage of VSL#3 for most dogs is one capsule daily. Be sure to get the capsules, and not the "sachets", which is flavored. My guy takes 2 capsules per day, but he weighs 75 lbs. 

[Photinie Koutsavlis]

Thanks for your advice - I did get Pixie the proviable probiotic ordered in by my vet.  We are two days into the paste and then have the powder capsules.  I have noticed a marginal improvement - where her morning BMs are better formed, however her afternoon ones are half formed and half mushy at best.  Not certain how long it takes for the probiotic to demonstrate changes.

She's off her antibiotics - which I am happy for - I didn't like having her on continuous medications -- hopefully the Proviable will help her along.

Thanks again

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It does take some time for the establishment of a good strong colony of beneficial bacteria in the gut. I'd give it several weeks.