High fiber foods

[Ron English]

Our 14 mo. old goldendoodle Rilee has had several bouts of diaharrea in the last 4 months. After several tests at the vets, she was found to have contracted clostridium perfringens. She's nose-driven on our walks and even in the back yard. That, combined with the times we go to the local dog park, may have played a role in how she contracted it -not really sure about that. We had her on Orijen from the time we got her at 8 weeks and she had been doing really well on it and liked it very much. After we found out about the diagnosis, we took a week to transition her over to the Royal Canin Fiber Response that the vet recommended. At the same time, we started her on Probiotic Miracle and she is still on it. Again, she did well on it and the stools were firm. After about a month and a half on the RC, we decided to transition her back to Orijen adult. We almost made it! On the 6th day the stools we unformed again. I called Champion to ask them if they had a high fiber food in their line. They said the their Senior line was higher in fiber, which you would expect. However, it is also, from what I've learned, lower in fat. So my question to the group is what do we do now on terms of a food for her? I know of the pumpkin suggestions that some people use here, but I was hoping to get a daily food that would meet her needs. I really liked the Orijen lineup and it seems to be the best out there, but I know it's very high in protein. Not sure if it's that or the fact that we just need the higher amounts of fiber. I'm in Canada so some of the brands that may be available in the US may not be so readily available here. I've also thought of switching her to the Arcana line but am not sue if they have a larger percentage of fiber in any of their lineup. ANY suggestions would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

First, good for you for trying to get her back on a good quality food. The RC food is chock full of corn, wheat, by-products, and other nasty things, none of them providing good nutrition for a dog. However, it's also chock full of insoluble fiber in the form of cellulose, providing a whopping 9 grams of fiber per cup, which is 2-3 times the amount you find in most kibbles. That's the only reason the food helped with her stools. It provides no other benefit whatsoever.

There are all kinds of ways to add fiber to a dog's diet without changing foods. You can order food-grade powdered cellulose on-line, mix half a teaspoon into a small amount of soft food (I use a heaping tablespoon or two of mashed sweet potatoes) and then mix that into the dog's meal. There's also soluble fiber in the form of psyllium powder, which is available at just about any drugstore (brand name is Konsyl but there are generics) which can be used the same way and is the preferred form of fiber among many veterinary internal medicine specialists. 

You can also add pumpkin, green beans, or sweet potatoes to the dog's meal for additional fiber. 

However, he fact that the Orijen Senior is lower in fat is not necessarily a bad thing. Many dogs with soft stool/diarrhea related to digestive issues do better with lower fat diets. You might try it.

I also recommend that you order Proviable DC ASAP, and I mean before you even respond to this post, lol. You'll need to order it online. To be effective, a probiotic needs to contain at least 5 billion CFUs per dose, and with Rilee having a bacterial issue in her gut, she needs all the good bacteria she can get. The Probiotic Miracle you are using contains only 2 billion CFUs per dose, and that's simply not enough. To give you an idea of how important those numbers are, my guy has a serious digestive disease, and he takes a human probiotic that contains 225 billion CFUs per dose. (VSL#3, in case you want to try it, lol)

The thing is, the Orijen didn't cause the C. Perfringens; it's not really food related, and food isn't going to get rid of it. All we can do with food is try to help with stool formation. You still need to treat the bacterial issue, and that's usually done with a combination of probiotics to encourage a colony of good bacteria, and an antibiotic to help get rid of the bad bacteria. Was she treated with any types of meds? If not, she should be. Here's some info: http://www.marvistavet.com/html/clostridium_perfringens.html

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Correction to the above info: The RC food has 9% fiber, not 9 grams. Most quality kibbles contains 3-4%, with some LID formulas and adult formulas containing more. The Orijen Senior formula has 8%, very close to the RC food, so that might be a very good option. 

Another option might be Acana's Singles line. All the formulas have 6.5% fiber, which is pretty good, and since they're LID formulas, they're good for dogs with digestive issues. 

[Ron English]

Thanks, Karen. That was very helpful. I had researched it myself when we got the news. She was put on two different antibiotics, a week apart. First was metronidazole and then tylosin.
My only concern about the Senior food was the low fat content since she's active and would need fat in her diet, I assume. I really would like to stay with Champion so if the senior will work, it's one possibility or the Arcana Singles line, as you suggested. Regarding the pumpkin, is there a preferred amount. I seem to remember reading that it could be counter-productive if it's too much. And do you simply mix it in with the food or freeze it in cubes? Would that work with the Orijen adult, do you think?
Thanks again.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Orijen Senior has a fat content of 15%, which is plenty high for any dog, unless she's running the Iditarod, lol. It's not really a low fat food. That's the same fat content as the Acana Singles formulas, and it's higher than that in many of the LID foods I recommend, including the one JD eats, which contains only 12% fat. And since the Orijen Senior is higher in fiber than the Acana, I think that would be your best option. 

If you do switch, don't bother with the pumpkin. I was suggesting those other methods of adding fiber if you wanted to try to stay with the Orijen Adult food. 

I really think the key here is going to be getting a good bacterial colony going vis the Proviable. Hopefully you've already ordered it. 

[Ron English]

Is there a difference in effectiveness when using a "human" probiotic? A health food store nearby has a very good selection of refrigerated probiotics but I wasn't sure if the strains needed for optimum effect in dogs would be the same as those for people. I did notice some differences in the strains in the brochure I took for the products they had.
Gracias.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I feed VSL #3 to my IBD Doodle (based on Karen's and my IMS's recommendation).  That is a "human" refrigerated probiotic that I get at my pharmacy.  It is very effective..although a bit expensive.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I'm curious about what was done to address the underlying cause....the clostridium perfringens.  If the bacteria is still present in her system I would think even with a high fiber food it would be difficult to get the diarrhea totally under control. 

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Never mind....I see that she has been on antibiotics which should have taken care of the infection.