How much is too much to spend on a doodle?

[Jodi Edsall]

I spent $1200 for Bailey and she is a great dog. A year later, I spent $186 on Murphy and he is a great dog. Both are loved members of our family. But my husband still reminds me that $1200 was a lot. I just inquired about a goldendoodle that was advertised (acturally there are three of them and they are 17 weeks old). The breeder said that they were originally $2300 but since they are getting older that he has lowered the price to $1800. Does anyone else think that is a lot to spend?

[Adina P]

I think this is a tough discussion to have because everyone's idea of a 'top' breeder is different and what happens, as is happening now, is that everyone lumps together various categories of breeders both on the doodle end and pure breed end...comparing apples to potatoes =)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

That's very true. However, I still maintain that when you buy a purebred dog from the kind of breeder I am talking about, you will absolutely get the healthiest dog possible. For me, that was my sole reason for going that route; I couldn't care less if the dog's rump was too square, etc., and I had no interest in breeding or showing. The pedigree was impressive (it still is, and it is still available for viewing on-line today, although my dog and all her progenitors are long dead) but you would have to know the names to be impressed, which few people do. I simply wanted the healthiest dog I could afford, a dog virtually guaranteed to be free of any kind of genetic defect, even the kind you can't test for, and that is what I got. I still say that's the only way to be sure, and given what I am going through now, that's the only way I would ever buy another dog. You couldn't take Jack from me if you held a gun to my head, but never again.

[Adina P]

THAT is the kind of breeder I'd look for in the future.
There are two sides to that equation: 1) YOUR assurance and 2) Respect for the breeder doing the breeding. I think what happens is that because health can't fully ever be guaranteed with 100% certainty...then that alone becomes reason to just toss the whole idea of testing and buy cheap from a breeder who doesn't follow high standards because "well nobody knows for sure anyway." That's the leap I disagree with. But for the record, please feel free (this is said to any member) to wholeheartedly disagree...I don't mind.

[Nancy Sunderland]

Hmmm.....I'm afraid to add up the totals...

"Dog: $2500, Shipping:$350, Vet Visits: $350, Dog Accessories: $200 (Bowls, food, collars, leashes, toys, crates, etc.,), Grooming Supplies: $300 (Clippers, Strait Shears, Thinning Shears, Shampoo, De-matting spray, brush, comb etc.,), : Obedience class: $100. Gorgeous, groomed, healthy, guaranteed, well trained dog and family companion: PRICELESS!"

(I smell an American Express commercial brewing......LOL)



(((BTW: Sable is the first dog we've ever paid for, others were all gifts, rescues or strays--so far, she's worth it!)))

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

OK I have to say Adina I think you are somewhat disillusoned as well. You feel that the only people who should be breeding are the the people who stand to make a hell of a lot of money from doing it. The breeder I got Abby from did everything that matches what your criteria of a responsible breeder is but she is definitely playing a huge huge part in supporting her family from this (I wouldnt be surprised if she is the sole breadwinner with this). Health Testing, great! Not a guarantee that something wont go wrong after the age of 2 and not worth $2000. I would guess with input versus output she is profitting a tidy $1500 per dog. Nothing wrong with that. But it is after all a business. And the sole purpose is to make money.

And yes I think there is a HUGE difference between a torturous puppy mill and a nice family having a litter from their own 2 pets, and I feel they have every right to do it without health testing, like you and I have the right to breed and produce babies without guarantees. And these people usually dont profit much from their pups. And I dont think they are taking business away from commercial breeders, nor do I feel they, in any way, are the cause of unwanted dogs.

If I decided to breed Kaela right now how much would it cost me to have her tested. $1000 tops? Say I paid the price and got semen shipped from a tested breeding sire. Another $500? Then I breed her have 6 pups and sell them at $2000. each. I profit tidily in the end. Good for me. Nothing in the world wrong with that. We all have to make a living and business is businesss. But it does not make me an altruistic saint, just a smart business woman who can sell to people like you. And it doesnt make the Jones's who bred Mitzy and Rover without using my steps, out of line and irresponsible.

Shelters are not full because people didnt do health testing. Shelters are full because jerks give away their own pets! Casually! Shelters have plenty of perfectly healthy dogs, But this isnt surprising when people, cant commit, pay no real heed to marriage vows, and dont look after their own children. It is an irresponsible uncaring society that seems to get worse with every passing generation. The only way to deal with the overfull shelters is to make it the only way for anyone, anywhere, to obtain a dog , ever. All future breedings to be illegal, from anybody. Ideal but unrealistic.

[Adina P]

I don't think the sole or even main reason shelters are overcrowded is due to lack of health testing. Far too simplistic of a cause to a very complicated problem. People don't return their dogs because they realized 'oops my dog's parents weren't health tested.' So that's not what I'm saying at all. But given that there are plenty of dogs (and nobody NEEDS to have a doodle any more than a certain TV brand) who need homes, I believe those who are creating more need to do so to add something EXCELLENT to the world. Something that had a lot of thought and care put into its creation. Ooops litters will happen. There will be people who let their dogs roam while intact, etc. But...

I DO think it's irresponsible to breed on purpose without health testing, without some good reason to have dog X mate with Dog Y (as opposed to another combo of dogs). This is purely philosophical based on the premise that there's NO reason to breed unless one is planning to do it to the highest standards.

I don't care what people charge for pups. If they want to charge $400 for fully tested pups from lines whose health problems are known and the mating done in a way to enhance health and maintain/enhance good temperament...GREAT! If they want to charge $5000...well I won't pay it but I don't care if someone else does.

I don't think families who breed their dogs are 'evil' or somehow morally depraved. Nor do I think you're horrible for buying from a family breeder. But I still disagree with the concept of breeding one's pets without having knowledge of their health and temperament background as deep and broad in the line as is possible. Regardless of whether this guarantees any single pup's health (and we all know there are no guarantees in nature) is NOT the most important thing to me. Health testing DOES reduce risk, but the main thing about Health Testing that I believe in is the commitment to a high standard--NOT some kind of insurance or proof that my pup will live to 20 y.o.

I have thought at times...awwee if only Rosco and Thule were not fixed...what CUTE babies they'd have. But I have no idea what genetics are stacked up on Thule's side as she's a rescue from some unknown breeder (kennel name was blacked out on papers we got from her owners/rescue). SHE is healthy but may come from horrible lines and may be a carrier for some very undesirable issues. Rosco's parents are health tested, but he had entropian eye as a pup. I have no idea if that's hereditary in all cases. And I don't know my lab and poodle lines well enough to know what his background might have in the pedigree. Testing would help with a lot of those things, but only gives me partial knowledge. But when it comes down to it...WHY, for the sake of a couple months playing with puppies, would I want to put my dogs through that and create a litter of complete unknowns for MY pleasure? I, don't have the resources to cover genetic issues if they pop up. I don't have the resources to care for pups if they don't sell or are returned. And I certainly don't want to deal with a 3 y.o. rehome down the line. If I didn't test them and only charged $400--I'd make some nice pocket cash--it would be nearly all profit except for a little extra food and a set of vaccines.

I may not be explaining myself correctly. Yes I realize that families who breed their pets LOVE their pets and their pups will probably be well socialized and won't live in poop. But there's more to good breeding than being a good pet owner. Loving your dogs does not make breeding them a responsible or wise decision. If it were then anyone with any breeds should be given kudos for breeding their pets if they take care of their pets. Why not breed anything with anything if it seems relatively healthy?

I don't take my ideology out to the conclusion that we need to get the law involved in controlling breeding. But I do still believe that unless one is going to make a very educated decision (based on knowledge of dog's background, health testing, etc) about breeding...and only do so to the highest of standards. And that has nothing to do with how much someone decides to charge...Price is a separate issue to me entirely. It just so happens that the breeders who do a bang up job TEND to charge more...but price doesn't prove anything. And a wonderful family pet could come from a shelter, a rescue, a puppy mill, a BYB, a NICE family, a semi-good breeder, or a top quality responsible breeder---all different sources and all different prices. But for me it comes down to HOW did this breeder go about the task of breeding? Did they commit themselves to excellence or did they just breed cute dogs for the heck of it?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I think you are "explaining yourself" beautifully, and I totally agree.

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

Agreed...great points.

[Adina P]

Hey wanna take it up in the Doodle Debate Club? Poor Jodi is gonna be sick of us arguing over what she thought was a simple question =) I'll start it off in there!

[Jodi Edsall]

LOL Adina, your funny!!!!

[1xar0x2rcx0li]

Are you serious? the cost of breeding is WAY higher. Try 1000-2000 for a GOOD stud fee, plus travel to meet him, hotel, or AI fee (cost of 2-3 pups gone). Are you going to get your puppies vaccinated and dewormed? 100 per pup (cost of 1 pup gone). The hugely increased cost of food for the mom, and the puppies from weaning to going home (cost of 1 pup gone). Hips alone can be 300-400 for testing, add elbows, CERF, Tyroid, vWD, etc...cost of health testing is 1000-1500 (cost of 1-2 pups gone). Are you going to x-ray to know how many pups to expect or just wing it? more cost. Are you going to have a website to sell your pups? more cost. Build a whelpingbox, buy space heater. more cost. I could go on and on. And that is if nothing goes wrong, you could have a stuck puppy, C-section. They can get sick, parvo, die, mom die during labour........A good breeder may make the price of ONE puppy profit per litter, and that is in exchange for hundreds of hours of work. If done properly it is not a way to make money.

I know you are trying to make a different point, but I cant stand people thinking breeders are greedy and it is easy money. NO WAY. Not if you do it responsibly and ethically.

[Noble Vestal Labradoodles]

Thank you for chiming in. I spend nearly 18 hours a day working with my dogs in some way or another. My puppies are truly raised in my home under feet not in the garage, basement, back yard, different room. I am rarely gone from them for more than an hour ever, if I am gone I have someone come in to make sure nothing happens and to keep the area clean, they get paid.

You have cost of early spay and neuter
microchipping
general meds
supplements for mom and pups
grooming tools
cost of cleaning and cleaning supply (lot of wear and tear on washing machine)
The list goes on.