In Need Of More Info on Hypo-Allergenic

[Kim Armstrong]

I have been involved in the breeding and adopting of Australian Labradoodles for almost two years now. I have been so confident to offer these guys to people with dog allergies with great results, no one has had to come back. I have a woman who has a daughter that was allergy tested, she is allergic to both the coat and saliva. Does anyone know how someone like this reacts to these dogs? Any experiences or stories to share would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Thanks. When the vet first suggested these suppliments I asked and you responded so I began them. Then when the groomer said that today, I got worried and knew you would set me straight. You give Jack evening primrose and glucosomine and chondrointin (however you spell them) correct?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Nance, the glucosamine-chondroitin is for bone & joint support; it's not related to the skin or allergy issues.
Jack gets the EFA's in the form of evening primrose oil capsules for his skin/allergy issues. They are human supplements, you can buy them anywhere vitamins & supplements are sold. They really make a difference.

[Kim]

My husband is allergic to our F1B Goldendoodle. He was having a lot of allergy reactions (hives and trouble breathing) when we first got her, so bad that he had to go to the Doctor and he was diagnosed with allergy induced Asthma. He is now on a daily inhaler, and was taking the emergency inhaler almost 3 times a day. We then decided to pull up our carpet because there was hardwood under them, and since we have done that - he still needs his daily inhaler but the emergency inhaler hasn't been needed. we got a doodle, because they are supposed to be ok for allergy sufferers. Any Vet, or Doctor will tell you that there truly is no dog breed that is "hypoallergenic."

We fell in love with her on day one so it was never a "it's me or the dog" issue, but I think if it were my child, I would have had to find a new home for the dog...but before it comes to that, they need to take a trip out to visit their potential puppy beforehand so that having to get rid of the dog isn't an option. 4 hours is NOT that far, and would definitely be worth it.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Thank you Kim. I hope everyone reading this will notice a few sentences in your post:

"My husband is allergic to our F1B Goldendoodle. He was having a lot of allergy reactions (hives and trouble breathing) when we first got her, so bad that he had to go to the Doctor...we got a doodle, because they are supposed to be ok for allergy sufferers." (Note that this an F1B)

The "non-shedding, hypoallergenic" issue is the number one reason that doodles are rehomed. It is also the number one reason cited for people wanting one in the first place. Misinformation is clearly causing a lot of heartbreak for people & doodles alike.
While it is true that no dog breed is hypo-allergenic, the less shedding there is, the less trouble an allergic person will have. Where there is no shedding, there is no dander. Poodles (and certain other breeds such as Wheaten terriers, bichons, schnauzers, etc.) do not shed. Ever. Not as puppies, not as adults, never. There is no "coat change". As discussed above, a person might be allergic to the saliva, but the dander is the cause of the asthma and upper-respiratory type problems. The saliva reaction is mainly in the form of contact dermatitis rashes which are not nearly as serious.
From your post, again:

" we got a doodle, because they are supposed to be ok for allergy sufferers...I think if it were my child, I would have had to find a new home for the dog.."

You have spelled out the exact problem here, and in my opinion, it is simply not worth the heartache for everyone concerned. Unless you have lived with a dog who has lost his home, especially a sensitive dog like a doodle, you cannot imagine what they go through. It is like the ground has been pulled out from under their feet. And who would want to take their child's dog away? Even if there were no immediate reaction to a puppy, there is a very good chance that one would develop as the dog gets older and goes through these "coat changes", which we are hearing about here on DK every week. You have seen them..."my puppy is 9 months old, and suddenly, there is hair all over the house" etc.
Doodles are wonderful dogs, but every breed is not right for every person. Sometimes we just have to accept that. That are lots of other great breeds out there as well, that might be a better fit.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I agree with you. Not everyone needs a dog. They are wonderful and an asset to our lives but risks we take for ourselves and risks we WON'T take for our children need to be considered.

[Kim]

My point was that 4 hours to travel is nothing compared to having to rehome a dog. I didn't want to sound like I would just get rid of a dog. If you go back and read my post - there is more to it than what was pasted. I said that it is worth the 4 hour car ride to see if the child has any reaction to the dog, before it came to finding a new home.

As you can see, My Husband was miserable, but we would never just get rid of the dog. We stuck it out and tried to do everything possible to make his allergies bearable. But he is a grown man, not a child. Hopefully the parents of this child really do the research involved in getting a doodle.

Our Vet noticed my husbands allergies on our first visit and he is upset that a lot of Breeders say they are hypoallergenic - because they aren't. If you look at ads on the internet, or in the newspaper for Doodles, MOST of them say they are hypoallergenic, which is not true at all.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

That's my point exactly. I know you wouldn't give up a dog.
"...he is upset that a lot of Breeders say they are hypoallergenic - because they aren't. If you look at ads on the internet, or in the newspaper for Doodles, MOST of them say they are hypoallergenic, which is not true at all."
Working in doodle rescue, this is one of my biggest issues. When you look at the information on the websites of every purebred breed club and top breeder, they discuss whether or not that particular breed is right for you. They also point out all the characteristics that might be less than desirable to some people. They want to make sure that anyone getting a puppy of their breed, which they love with their hearts, is making an informed choice, and the puppy will not end up being rehomed.
Here is an example of what I mean... very famous article called "Don't buy a Bouvier":
http://www.bouviers.net/info/dontbuy.html
This woman LOVES these dogs.
Why don't we see this with doodles? Whenever anyone suggests that a doodle might not be the best choice for a particular person, family, or situation, a lot of doodles owners get upset and protest. Every single time anyone asks about whether they should get a doodle in the forum here, for example, everyone encourages it...whether there are allergies, other difficult family situations, whatever. It is not in the best interests of the dogs.

[Kim Armstrong]

I only know what I have been told and that is that in order for the dog to be hypo-allergenic it needs to be a multigenerational Australian Labradoodle as opposed to a Labradoodle or Golden Doodle. They were bred for this purpose along with its service therapy abilities. They are a product of years of genetic studies in order to come up with the perfect combination of 6 different breeds in order to come up with the magic dog. I have been in this business for 2 years now and have adopted out many dogs, alot have gone to people with extreme allergy problems and so far everyone has done perfectly fine. I do know though that there will be an occasional exception and also it may depend on whether or not it is a fur allergy or a saliva allergy.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Wow! It's kind of scary to hear them referred to as "the magic dog". There is nothing magic here; genetics are complicated, but they are based on fact, not magic.
The original experiment by Wally Conron to breed a non-shedding service dog in Australia failed miserably. That is why he abandoned the whole project. His best results, verified by laboratory testing on hair & saliva, never went over 30%. And in fact 70% of doodles do shed to some degree.
What the Australian labradoodle breeders did who picked up the torch in an attempt to charge champion prices for mutts, I cannot tell you, and probably no one else can either. We do know that there was an awful lot of inbreeding going on there. We also know that there are already several dogs, most notably the poodle, that do not shed at all, ever, and don't have "coat changes" either.
I have seen an awful lot of doodles given up because their owners were misled into believing that they don't shed and are hypo-allergenic. Also because their owners were led to believe they were "magic dogs". Two years is not a long time to be doing anything, and if I am not mistaken until this past year, your involvement in this "business' was as an administrative assistant for another breeder, was it not?
I don't know what you were told, but there is no such thing as a "magic dog," and to say that is extremely harmful to this "breed."

[Kim Armstrong]

Agreed and yes throwbacks to happen.

[Kim Armstrong]

I am sorry perhaps I used the incorrect word. I just think these guys are. I have seen their therapy capabilities and I have been around people who pick up their puppies and cry because they have never been able to have a dog all their lives. To me that is magic. You are right two years is not alot of time. I did administrative work for Angela 6 months prior to her asking if I would get involved with the care and breeding of her dogs. I learned alot during those 6 months I can say that. Do I have alot more to learn? Absolutely!! I appreciate everyones thoughts including yours.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

"I have been around people who pick up their puppies and cry because they have never been able to have a dog all their lives."

I just don't understand this. Have these people never heard of a poodle? There are a lot of breeds that don't shed. It has always been possible for highly-allergic people to live with dogs.
Kim, I appreciate your comment, and I'm sorry if I was a little rough. But it is very, very disturbing to me how many people are breeding and selling dogs that are 50-75% poodle, and yet they have never spent one hour with a purebred poodle before they took it upon themselves to bring living creatures into this world. it takes more than observation or word of mouth to be good at anything...it takes knowledge, education, research.
I really think there are an awful lot of people who do think, as Jane said, that doodles are "non-shedding retrievers", and that is just not the case.
To me, there is one question that anyone who is consdiering a doodle of any generation should ask themselves. "If there was no such thing as a doodle, would you get a dog?"
If the answer is no, I wouldn't sell them one.