Kennel all day?

[Nancy Sunderland]

Hi, I have a topic to bring up that I'm afraid might touch a few nerves, but I would like to have some feedback and friendly discussion nonetheless. When I started telling people we were getting an ALD puppy, half of the people were rude and judgmental--saying, "What are you thinking? Are you crazy?" referring to two things; the cost ($2500 + shipping) and to the work involved (I have 4 young daughters and two other big labs). Many told me horror stories about their most recent puppy experiences, and all the things that got ruined; carpet, shoes, furniture, etc., One young couple in particular, (DINKS--dual income, no kids), had a golden retriever puppy that was a disaster behaviorally and property-destruction wise for about 7 months. BUT the dog is in a kennel 9+ hours a day...

Ok, here it comes.... I personnally don't think it's fair to get a dog, then put it in a kennel all day; M-F. I would tear s*#@ up too if I was cooped up so much. I'm a stay at home mom, (I have a BS Business degree with a minor in human development & family studies, but chose to stay home after a few failed attempts at part time work. I finally discovered that God and my family were calling me home--but that;s another topic), and I am interacting with my dogs all day long. For example, when I'm pushing the kids in the swings, I am usually also brushing the labs with the undercoat rake, or curry comb. When I take a walk, I look like a dog walker with my double stroller. But it's fun, for me, my kids, and my dogs.

I'm going to try really hard not to sound judgmental here, but I'm going to apologize in advance if it comes across that way; I don't understand why people get dogs that they don't have time for? I just read over the re-homing discussion about helping members who might be on the fence, and it got me thinking about this issue. I'm really not trying to upset anyone, I know everyone has their own circumstances, I just wanted to put my two cents out there. Please don't get mad at me and post angry comments, (I WILL cry...)

I hope that my post has been tactful and non-judgmental, as that was my aim.

[Lynne Fowler-Oodles of Doodles]

Mine either, now that they are older. Jack had terrible separation anxiety when he was younger. He ate a couch one day for crying out loud. But I just got smarter and decreased his area until he had just den and kitchen. I gave him "treats" of a king or a marrow bone or bully stick before I left and redirected him. Gradually, He was trusted with the house again. He's also, 95#, not a crate sized doodle.

Plus, I needed (OK wanted) new furniture. LOL

[Tamara & Giada]

I agree with crating, it is the # of hours a dog is left alone that bothers me. So, for me its not about the crate, although I have had a DK member tell me that I should not own a dog because I confine my dogs to our laundry room/back entry a few hours a week and at night, and I bet we are home with our dogs more than she is.......doesn't make sense to me!!!!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I am wondering- for adult dogs who are housebroken and have had some basic obedience training, what the reasoning is for crating them while at work rather than just giving them the run of the house, or confining them to a portion of the house by closing off access to certain rooms. For those who mentioned safety concerns, what are they? Collar issues can easily be addressed by leaving them off in the house or using breakaways. So what are some of the other safety concerns? Not judging here, I'm really just curious.
I totally understand wanting to keep them out of say, kid's rooms full of toys or formal living rooms filled with breakable objects, but that could be done by closing bedroom or basement doors or using gates. I also agree with Allyson that some dogs are given more of a sense of security by being kenneled, especially those with separation anxiety issues. I always had my dogs' crates available to them with the door open and sometimes they did choose to nap there during the day.
But for well-adjusted, trained adult dogs who have no issues, why do they need to be crated when nobody is home?

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

Yes, I probably should have added that Peri is only 5 months old. We plan to start giving her more room in the next few months, like start with a certain room or area in the house and gate her there for the day. Have to start gradually with that though...
And Taquito is 5 years old and has free reign of the house.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

That makes complete sense to me. :-)

[Sue]

I have to bite my tongue on this one. It's my absolute biggest pet-peeve! I just can't believe anyone would think it's OK to crate a dog for more than 2-3 hours at a time! Chip has never EVER been in a crate in his life. (Yes he does fine at the groomers when they use it). It makes me cringe to think of these dogs in a cage for hours on end.
This was addressed to you Karen, because you know me, LOL I'm WITH you on this!!

[HANNAH 8/2/07 & HONEY 7/2/08]

Some of the best trained dogs are trained by food motivation....No matter how well trained a dog is there is always a chance that it's owner will forget and leave something lie around that could injure it's pet. Like forget a bowl of grapes, or if your on medications or just wind up with a headache and leave tylenol set out by accident and the dog might become bored and counter surf that your not aware of them doing, if they get ahold of these things they can become gravely ill or die. You never know and to me those are good enough reason for anyone to crate train their dogs. If there is a disaster and you can't stay with your dog, but a shelter can take them if they are crate trained...you just saved your dogs life. Abuse of a crate is when owners leave their pets for hours on end (10 to 12 hours a day, on a regular basis), than come home and let the dog out for 10 to 20 mins. and as soon as the dog is into things instead of teaching the dog they crate the dog again, when they are off and are to busy doing other things instead of training the dog or spending time with the dog and shoving it back into a crate, thats crate abuse in my opinion.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I am not disagreeing with crate training. All of my dogs have been crate-trained, and even after they were no longer confined to a crate at home, there was no problem crating them at the groomer's or vet's. Jack would have no trouble having to be crated in a disaster situation, even though he is never confined to a crate at home.
As for leaving food & meds within reach of dogs, we have heard plenty of stories in the forums about someone's dog getting grapes, chocolate, medications, etc., when the owner is home. The lesson from all that should be to put harmful things away, period. Kids could get into it, too. There is nothing easier than putting food into the refrigerator or pills into the cupboard.

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

Right. I agree. Well put Kar.

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

And don't forget the leather shoes...don't leave those out :)

Good topic...nice debate that has not gotten too heated. I like it!

[HANNAH 8/2/07 & HONEY 7/2/08]

lol or the flip floops ...shreky the shredder loves them also

[HANNAH 8/2/07 & HONEY 7/2/08]

Lets just say 15 year old Jimmy comes home from school with his buddies and they take out a pile of grapes left as a snack. They chomp some of them down and the phone rings, Jimmy answers and out the door him and his buddies go to football practice. Dog is never crated and left have the run of the kitchen and family room while whom ever is at work..etc. Dog eats the remaining 3 lbs of grapes left out because Jimmy forgot to put them away. Whatever comes home from work 3 to 4 hours later and Dog is convulsing because Jimmy forgot. Had that dog been crated its life would have been spared a lot of health issue. Just as easy as it is to say "The lesson from all that should be to put harmful things away, period. Kids could get into it, too. There is nothing easier than putting food into the refrigerator or pills into the cupboard." It's just as easy to crate a dog and keep them safe. You wouldn't allow your toodler to be unsupervised at home, why would you with your dog.