Males and Marking

[The Dude and his person, Kristi]

I am on a waiting list for a litter of mini goldendoodles that will be ready to go home July/August sometime.  I live in a apartment with no yard.  I can bring my dood to the office once it's potty trained.  Others bring their dogs as well.  Most of those dogs are female.  A couple of people have brought by their male dogs.  Those dogs did mark....one outside in the yard...but on a plastic tarp covering patio furniture.  One on a chair inside!  Ugh.  Those dogs don't come in regularly.  And I don't think they are well trained.

My question to all of you is: Given my circumstances, would choosing a male puppy be risky?  I'm envisioning a male....but I've got reservations because of the marking issue.  What are your experiences?

Thank you,

Kristi

[Christina and Cooper plus Benny]

Coop marks outside, NEVER NEVER on anything inside, and never on anything other than plants and trees. I was concerned about getting a male puppy as I grew up around females only, but I can tell you he is a little under two years old now, and I love that he is "my little man!" I am SO happy I have a boy! No marking problems here at all! He also goes in to the office - or did before I moved my office in to my home, and I never had a marking problem there even as a tiny baby pup. He did throw up once in the office, but that couldn't be helped. :)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm a little confused by your use of the term "marking" when it applies to a male dog urinating outdoors. Many adult male dogs lift their leg to urinate against an object...dogs don't want to stand in their own urine or have it hitting their feet. They usually prefer to urinate against a tree, bush, or post, but if these are not available, they might use a piece of outdoor furniture. This is not marking. "Marking" is not a dog's simply relieving himself, it is deliberately marking an object with his urine when he really doesn't have a simple urge to relieve himself. "Marking" is usually done in response to the scent of other dogs having marked that object previously, and can be a dominant behavior, saying "I was here". This is literally a "p*ssing contest".
The dog who urinated indoors on the chair was not fully housebroken and/or not neutered. A normal adult male dog who is neutered and housebroken never, but never, marks or urinates indoors.
If your objection is to the fact that some normal male dogs urinate against an object rather than just squatting on the ground, I would advise you not to get a male dog. Many male dogs do not lift their legs, but just as many do, and there is no way to know ahead of time what a male puppy may prefer when he matures.

[Adina P]

Karen I disagree. Rosco was neutered before 5 months. He didn't lift his leg on anything until about 10 months, once, and then not again for awhile. When he lifts his leg on trees, bushes, etc...OUTSIDE...he IS marking. It's not just an urge to pee. He almost only pees squatting in our yard and even on walks if I stop on the side walk and let him on the grass. But most trees and bushes have been peed on by other dogs and when he lifts he's marking (because he does it even when he barely has any pee left).

ONCE and only once Rosco lifted his leg on a piece of furniture indoors. It was at a dog friendly hotel, so i can only guess another dog had been there before and marked that area. Rosco is fully housebroken and was not neutered very late and he marks outside and had that one instance when he marked indoors. But I let him know in no uncertain terms that it was NOT okay and he didn't have any problems after that.

But I don't think most people have to worry about this happening. If from the beginning you, Kristi, take the puppy in and use a crate to start, keep him on leash, keep things very structured and don't allow him free roam...he probably won't mark there. And if you can keep him from doing so early on...then you probably won't have anything to worry about later. And females mark too! Cass has always marked on walks everywhere she could (she just didn't lift her leg to do it and she never did it indoors).

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I don't see where we're in disagreement. I'm saying there is marking and there is peeing, and they are two different things. But some male dogs do lift their leg when they are peeing, and also when they are "marking". Some male dogs (like Rosco) always squat to pee, and lift their legs only when they are marking. Some males dogs (not many) never mark, and always squat to pee, so those don't ever lift their leg, lol.
Jack marks when we are on a walk, where other dogs have marked. Little squirts on every other tree or mailbox post. But when he goes out into the yard to pee first thing in the a.m., he also lifts his leg on his favorite big evergreen bush and leaves quite a puddle. The behavior on the walks is "marking", the behavior in the yard is urinating. Two different things, but both involve lifting his leg.
So I am asking, is it really "marking" that is being objected to here, or is it the fact that a male dog might lift his leg and pee against an object?

[Adina P]

I guess I was disagreeing with this:

"The dog who urinated indoors on the chair was not fully housebroken and/or not neutered. A normal adult male dog who is neutered and housebroken never, but never, marks or urinates indoors."

Because Rosco did, once. And I know another doodle who is a therapy dog and generally very well behaved and has been through lots of training and otherwise obedient...he did it once too in a strange house. So it CAN happen, but probably, to relieve your worries, Kristi, it's HIGHLY uncommon.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Okay, I misspoke. I fostered a retired police K9 who marked once in a strange house, too. If he could do it, any dog might mark once, in a strange place where he picked up a scent. But never on a regular basis, especially not in his own home.

[Denise & Hunter!!!]

LOL Karen I am just cracking up at P*ssing Contest! LOL I work with a few males that do this - oh wait they aren't dogs!!! OOPS! I am certain they are not neutered or trained either! LOL

[BG and Gavin]

My Gavin is only 8 months old and therefore not fully mature, so his habits may change. However, he squats to pee and generally only does so in the back yard or if we are at a park or somewhere where he has been playing for a prolonged time. He has never peed during a walk and never "marked." He has never humped though either and is definately not a dominant dog. His tail wags from the moment he opens his eyes in the morning and doesn't stop until he closes them at night. Not sure if his good nature is attributed at all to his sex but it sure makes me feel positive about male dogs.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Jack squatted to pee until he was 18 months old, and still will squat if he needs to go and he is in a flat bare area where there is nothing to pee against.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Females Mark Too! Dominant females can and do mark. Believe me.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Right! That's why the term "marking" does not mean a dog's lifting his leg to urinate against and object. It is a dominant behavior that has nothing to do with the normal urination.

[Melissa & Porter]

A neighbor's female dog marked in my house. It is a dominance thing. My dog wouldn't give her his bone. When my dog finally walked away, she approached and PEED on it and my rug. She is six and does not pee in her own house. So there is some more info to keep you confused.