Personal Thoughts Regarding Rutland Manor

[Tanya]

Ever since I have had my ALD, I have been reading this forum. It is a wonderful place to learn and get information regarding my sweet little guy who is 14 months old. I don't think that any of us wouldn't say that we just love the doodles as well as anybody else that knows or meets them.

I have been reading and staying up on the whole Rutland Manor situation. My guy is from a US breeder who I have respect for and who has always been helpful and is always interested in how her pups are doing. But here is the thing... Augie is directly related to RM Shasta/Grandmother (Shasta's first EARLY litter) and his Mother was bred at RM and sent to the states.

I have been keeping an open mind regarding everything I have been reading - all over - involving Rutland Manor. But I have been also pondering many things in my own mind. Not all these organizations, Baw Baw, neighbors, breeders that have spoken out, a university,and so on and so on,. are in a massive conspiracy out to get Beverly Manners. I feel very much that they want/need to see these unbelievable sweet ALDs rescued from these conditions of which they are living in.

I have read numerous times that people are asking for more 'proof' from these organizations. It seems clear to me that there is an ongoing investigation and they might be under advice or orders to not post all the evidence that they have in their possession RIGHT NOW. Here in the US, whether it is police, sheriff, FBI, IRS or any other departments that have investigations, they do NOT play 'all their cards' until they get their entire case together. I am wondering if this might be the case in Australia too.

In all civilized countries, children and animals are protected. They are the 'innocents' that can't protect themselves. If there is a united ongoing investigation, I am sure that these people and organizations are hopefully or SHOULD be all working together to protect these dogs. I am under the belief, after reading everything I find with a completely open mind, that many people would love to get up on the highest steeple, with the largest megaphone, and yell out all they know right now. I don't believe they can YET!

My greatest worry is regarding my totally loyal and loving Augie. There is nothing that I wouldn't do to protect him in the past, present, and future. But right now, I have NO TRUST, whatsoever, of Rutland Manor's part of the pedigree and health testing of his close relatives. I am very concerned about what might appear in future years and the heartbreak that may come. This is a new breed. I am worried.

But I love these dogs. And I wouldn't hesitate to get another one. But I feel that we all have to hold our breaths concerning any pedigree that is from Rutland Manor or the late Teagan Park for potential health problems in the future. And my hope is that all OTHER breeders of these dogs, with this BEAUTIFUL temperament, keep breeding them all over the world so other families will have the same joy that I have with my guy.

[HANNAH 8/2/07 & HONEY 7/2/08]

if you google DNA testing on dogs there are some articles I have read about the DNA testing and it not being 100% accurate. will try and find them again and post them here so you can read them...

http://dogs.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Dog_DNA_Test

This was taken from this link below:
http://www.dogplay.com/GettingDog/dna_testing.html
Note that the American Staffordshire Terrier is not one of those 58 validated breeds. It is, perhaps, good news for those whose dogs are constantly faced with ill conceived breed specific legislation. However, while this test was inaccurate, failing to find the breeds typically covered in BSL, I think the point is well taken that it could just as easily be inaccurate in the other direction. Such a test might be used by authorities to "prove" that a particular dog is a mix of a restricted breed even when the dog's background contains none of that restricted breed. Genetic testing has already been used to successfully counter an official's opinion that a particular dog is of a mix subject to a breed ban. If these tests are proven to be unreliable then are we back to the often very inaccurate "expert" opinions of officials?

Another person reported the results of submitting samples for a Boston Terrier and a Keeshond. Canine Heritage identified the Boston Terrier as a mix of Cairn Terrier, Miniature Pinscher and Whippet. Canine Heritage states that they are able to successfully assign the correct breed over 99% of the time when testing purebred dogs on their breed list. Their breed list includes the Boston Terrier and so should have been able to identify it. DOG DNA identified the Keeshond as Golden Retriever, Akita, and Samoyed. They are, apparently, using the same test and breed list as Canine Heritage.

[Denise & Hunter!!!]

Can someone give me a brief synopsis of what exactly Rutland Manor is and what they have done? I have seen them referenced before and I am curious what the story is. I did google them and saw some terrible pictures of the kennels........

[Adina P]

Rutland Manor is the originator/creator/founder of the Australian Labradoodle -- from there I'll leave the story to others...

[F, Calla & Luca]

I think that having DNA testing as well as testing for sound hips, and for various diseases would not only be very expensive but you might have to sedate the dog for some of the tests. It does not seem practical. Then too, what if some tests have undesirable results? That would not in all cases mean that the dog would ever have a problem nor would good test results ensure ongoing good health. If the dog is OK now I think you just have to see what happens in the future as we all do.

[1xar0x2rcx0li]

My comments regard buying a puppy not a rescue/rehome, since they all deserve to be saved.

Am I reading you correct, that you think the practical matter of anesthetic makes it OK to forgo hip testing? I have read a study done in labrador retrievers and German shepard, that demonstrated that by hip testing, they reduced the incidence of HD from 50% to 20% in one breed and from 30% to 10% in the other. And since HD is not entirely genetic, there are environment, behavioural, dietary, etc...factors that contribute to it, I think the reduced risk of HD by testing is extremely important. If a vet can't safely anesthetize your dog for an x-ray, RUN RUN RUN very far away from that vet.

Yes testing cost money, those breeders that don't do it have money as thier priority, not the puppies health.

Yes, testing is not a sure thing, but wouldn't you rather put your hard earned money, love, time, soul, into a puppy that had the best possible chance of living 10-15 healthy years with you, rather than a genetic lottery that is far less likely (although still possible) to make it that long and as healthy?

[Adina P]

I think she's referring to what Tanya as a worried owner of an otherwise healthy dog should test for to ease her mind--NOT what a breeder ought to do.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Thanks Adina, you type faster than me and beat me to it!

[F, Calla & Luca]

No, I think you misunderstood me. I absolutely believe that breeders should be tested since the outcome of the testing determines the quality of the planned puppies. The puppy in question is, I believe a neutered pet. Testing him would not change anything as of now. The owner, Tanya, wants reassurance because she is worried that RM or TP dogs, from whom the pups parent are descended, may not have been what they were represented to be. I think that if Tanya bought her puppy from a reputable US breeder the appropriate tests would have been performed, as they should have been, on the pups parents.

[1xar0x2rcx0li]

OOHHHHH, thanks for clearing me up. I agree, I would only test the actual puppy if there are behaviours that warrent it, ie showing some signs of limping, or pain after exercise.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I generally disagree with any testing for dogs or humans that is just for information and will not change any planned treatment, etc. particularly if it has any risk. Sometimes i is important to test for "peace of mind" but not often. For ourselves and our dogs the cost of needed testing and health care is high enough.

[Laura Powell]

Tanya, I fear that if this nonsense persists, there will be no breeders left to breed these wonderful creatures. No DoodleKisses, No Doodleworld, No DoodleZoo.... No Doodles. The domino effect has started at the top and is quickly trickling down into the masses.

Tanya, now think about it. Do you really believe that Rutland Manor Breeding & Research Centre (Notice that word RESEARCH) would have survived over 22 years if they hadn't Foundered a dog that was Well Bred & Marketable?

The Australian Labradoodle was not born over night? A lot of RESEARCH went into creating this most Healthy, Intelligent, Loving, Beautiful, Lovable, Goofy (did I mention Loving) Hypoallergenic, non-shedding, Companion, Therapy/Service dog. Do you really think that breeders all over the world would have decided to base their Entire Careers on that specific dog from those two SPECIFIC breeders if they thought that the product was defective? Do you really think that the Labradoodle would be so popular if it had many defects? To find the answers to these questions I think that most of us only have to take a Look at our wonderful doodles to see the real truth about these special dogs.

American breeders followed the formula for "The Australian Labradoodle" for a good reason. Do you think that thousands of people bought this specific dog without doing RESEARCH into the breed before spending thousands of dollars on a pet? If the maker created defects, then I guess all of the Australian Labradoodle Breeders with RM/TP bloodlines are producing puppies with defects as well right?

This campaign against "THE AUSTRALIAN LABRADOODLE" was started by an ANIMAL ACTIVIST in Australia who by the way has a Police Record and is UNDER INVESTIGATION. IF everyone does not WAKE UP & SMELL THE DOODLE DOO soon and Stand Behind Beverley Manners, I fear that our beloved labradoodle will become Extinct almost over night. That's what people should worry about instead of doing some nonsensical DNA testing on dogs that have had very little to no history of any medical problems in the past.

As for The Baw Baw Council, they have plans for Redevelopment and it includes Beverley's property. She lived happily and peacefully on her last site for many many years devoid of problems. She had some Personal family problems causing her to move to a smaller property and needed to do it in a most expeditious manner. When she found her present property it seemed perfect because although the kennels were run down (she renovated everything after moving in) it was set up for breeding & had a permit so, she bought it without much investigation. It was only later after moving her entire home and operations to this new location did she find out that the previous owner had not been welcome in the community, leaving out this information to potential buyers. He had major problems with the council and neighbors as well. Beverley has done everything in her power to comply with all of their crazy requests but the Council is never happy. They even make her play music the entire night so that the dogs are unable to hear any noise outside and bark. It is obvious that they have another agenda.

But have no fear TANYA, Some very concerned Doodle Owners are visiting Rutland Manor investigating as I write this UNFORTUNATE POST, taking pictures of the facilities, the grounds, the daily routine, management, staff, etc and a group of Labradoodle owners will be putting it up on a website shortly to answer any and all concerns. Also, you can go to her website and here what Beverley has to say at: http://www.rutlandmanor.com/pages/home/controversial-issues.php

SO TANYA, in the meantime, why not GO GIVE YOUR WONDERFUL DOODLE A NICE BIGGGGG HUG. (BTW Tanya, we would love to see some pictures of your doodle and what did you say his/her name was)?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I don't know what is going on at Rutland Mnor, and to be honest, I don't really care. We have all kinds of dogs being poorly bred, abused, and misrepresented right here in North America.
However, I do take issue with some of your statements.
1."Do you really believe that Rutland Manor Breeding & Research Centre (Notice that word RESEARCH) would have survived over 22 years if they hadn't Foundered a dog that was Well Bred & Marketable?"
There are documented puppy mills right here in the U.S. that have been thriving for more than 20 years. One of them was recently shut down; there were citations against the owner dating back to 1987. The puppies are unquestionably "marketable". Well-bred? Think again. The longevity of a breeding establishment is no proof of quality or ethics.
2. "Do you really think that the Labradoodle would be so popular if it had many defects? To find the answers to these questions I think that most of us only have to take a Look at our wonderful doodles to see the real truth about these special dogs"
In the forums here on DK alone, you can find owners with dogs suffering from every kind of genetic disease that it is possible for a dog to have. Many of these dogs came from "reputable" breeders, and yes, some of them are from TP/RM bloodlines. So in looking at our wonderful doodles, yes, I see many "defects". Popularity is no proof of freedom from defects...the Labrador retriever is the most popular dog in the U.S. and has been for several years. They are absolutely loaded with genetic defects.
3. "Do you think that thousands of people bought this specific dog without doing RESEARCH into the breed before spending thousands of dollars on a pet?"
Not only do I think that, I know it for a fact. Thousands of people bought into the hype (which by the way, you perpetuate above with your comments about hypo-allergenic, non-shedding, and healthy...again, many of us here have dogs who are none of those things) without doing any kind of research at all, other than seeing a doodle somewhere. And the fallout from this is that they are being dumped in shelters, given up to rescues, and rehomed through ads on Craig's list at an alarming rate. If you want proof of this, please visit the DRC website and take a look around.
http://doodlerescuecollective.ning.com/
I love my doodle more than I can say. And yes, he is wonderful. But he is a genetic nightmare, produced by greedy, unscrupulous people trying to cash in on the "doodle craze", and he suffers every day of his life because of it. I suffer along with him. He was also purchased for thousands of dollars by people who did no research. When they found out that doodles are NOT hypo-allergenic, DO shed, and also have horrendous uncurable genetic illnesses, they dumped him in a shelter.
I know you are sincere in your feelings and in your words, and I respect your opinions. As I say, I have no personal knowledge of what is going on at RM. But I would do anything in the world to prevent one more dog being born into the kind of lifelong suffering that my guy deals with every day. And the only hope of that is to make sure we do not propagate some of the myths about these dogs. That is my reality.