UPDATE: Potty problems with 7 month old

[Deborah and Molly]

I am so frustrated with Molly, probably more so with myself. Molly is a very smart girl and picks up on things very quickly. She knows the words ball, baby, frisbee, rope, bone, and some others. She knows her basic obedience commands, etc. But, and this is a big one, she refuses to stop going potty in her room. She will go to her room, in the basement, just to potty. As you can see from the pictures, she has a very large space.
When we brought her home, her space was in our washroom. She stayed there until she started gnawing holes in our walls; thus, her move to the basement "apartment.". I did train her to use the piddle pads and most of the time she will pee on them, but has NEVER pooped on them. I want to break this cycle and get her house trained. She has never been crated. Also, she is fed by 6pm everyday. I do leave her about 1/2 a cup of water in her bowl during the night.
She knows that she is doing a "no no" because she will go to her bed and lay down. I scold her with a "No....bad potty" and put her outside. I have 2 smaller dogs that were potty trained by 3 months, Molly is now 7 months.
Any suggestions are welcome.

[Deborah and Molly]

I'm not sure how to add the pictures to my discussion. I'll try to post them in my pictures section.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I'm not sure where you want her to go....on the pads or outside?  If you want her to go outside, you'll need to get rid of the pee pads or she will be confused.  When is she having these accidents?  Always in "her room" and do you fully remove the odor with Nature's Miracle?  What specifically have you done so far for potty training?  I think we can offer some advice, but right now I'm not clear on what your approach to training has been.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I don't know if this will help you, but just in case she goes in one spot, here is what I did.  My son had a doberman (young but housebroken) who selected a spot in our dining room to poop when he didn't want to go outside.  I tried cleaning but obviously, there was still an odor drawing him to that spot.  Finally I placed a chair over that area, thus blocking its availability.  That seemed to allow him to break his habit.  On the chewing molding note, our Springer chewed through two couches and a chair - cushion by cushion, as well as molding, rugs etc as a pup.  He only did this when left alone.  He is a terrific dog who did grow out of it, however what it really stemmed from was his anxiety at being left without humans.  We consulted a very poor trainer, and so didn't address his underlying anxiety.  Do evaluate when Molly is destructive because there might be a reason you need to address other than puppy destructiveness.

Back to the pottying.  Is she taken out often enough and given enough time to go as much as she needs to go to thoroughly empty her bladder and bowels? Have you consulted a trainer (better than our effort) or your vet?

[Marnie, Stanlee's Mom]

Stanlee is funny about going potty outside.  When I first get home we go outside and he does a quick pee as he wants mommy's attention.  I have learned that a quick pee followed 5 or 10 minutes later by good yard-time gets him to both pee AND poop outside BUT if I don't take him out that second time, he goes to the foyer to finish his business.  Stan likes to check out the yard before getting down to business so it takes him some time to finish up.

 

Good luck!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It's never a good idea to isolate a dog, especially a puppy, in a closed room, which is one reason people use crates.With a crate, the dog is confined but can be near her family and see what's going on, and you can see her. Dogs are pack animals and need to be with their families, being isolated in a separate area where they have solid barriers is almost guaranteed to lead to destructive behavior like chewing holes in the walls. Another reason is that you need to confine the space enough that the dog cannot eliminate in it and have enough room to get away from her mess. Even in a bathroom, most puppies could easily defecate ot urinate in one area and still have room to move away from it.

Is there some reason why Molly needs to be isolated in a separate room? I would strongly urge you to get a crate. If she is having accidents out of sight, you are missing the opportunity to correct her at the time it is happening, which is the only way you can successfully communicate to her that pottying indoors is wrong. Until a dog is housebroken, they should never be out of your sight in an area where it is possible for them to make a mistake.

You cannot correct a dog after the fact. If you don't catch her in the act, you cannot scold her. She does not know that she is doing a "no-no", she only knows that she is being shamed, and that's why she goes to her bed. Dogs don't misbehave or have accidents out of spite. They really want to do the right thing, but they have to be given clear signals so that they understand what the right thing is. If you find a mess without having seen the dog do it, you should never do anything other than clean it up. You don't want the dog to get the idea that going potty is a bad thing, you want them to understand that going potty indoors is a bad thing. There's a big difference. Scolding after the deed is done just confuses the dog.

Also, you MUST use an odor neutralizer on the area every time you clean it up. You may not be able to smell anything, and the stain may be gone, but trust me, the dog can still smell it, and she will return to that area. This means pouring (not spraying) a good odor neutralizer like Nature's Miracle so that the entire area is saturated, and if there is carpet, it must be saturated thru the pad to the floor.

Ideally, the puppy starts to "go", you catch them in the act and simply make a loud sound to distract them "EH!" or "NO!", grab them and get them outside. If they "go" outside, you praise them to the moon and give them a treat. With this sequence, the dog begins to understand  "Indoors bad, outdoors good", which is crucial to successful housebreaking.

 

 

[Deborah and Molly]

Molly is only confined to her room at night, for bedtime, and if no one is home to watch her. I hate the thought of confining a 68 lb. dog in a crate, some days, for 9 hours. On these long days, I try to take her to daycare if I can afford it (my dog, my responsibility). The room she is in has a gate with slats 4 inches a part, so she can see out. We have a portion of our yard (1/2 acre) fenced in, so she and our 2 smaller dogs spend time outside. Also, the potty mishaps are during the night and occasionally, like today, a pee on the basement floor.
The chewing has stopped, so no problem there. When I am home, she is with me constantly and goes outside about every 2 hours.
Our 2 smaller dogs have a room upstairs that is also gated. This is where they sleep and stay when we're not home.. We have never let any of our dogs sleep with us or out free in the house.
My ultimate goal is that Molly not pee or poop anywhere, floor or piddle pads.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Honestly, I have never lived with a dog who wasn't fully housebroken and had the run of the house by the time they were 6 months old, and with most of them, from 4 months on. They were either crated or gated in the kitchen when nobody was home and at night until they were fully housebroken. And then they slept in my room (childhood dogs slept in my parents' room). I agree with not keeping a dog in a crate for 9 hours, but I have never run into a situation where that would have been necessary. Hopefully, someone else will have some other tips for you.  I don't see how it would be possible to prevent an untrained dog from having accidents if she is left loose in a large area without supervision.

[Shannon and Finn]

I would also say if she is only making mistakes in that room then do not allow her near it until she is fully trained. I used baby gates to block of a potential potty spot to prevent accidents on carpet while we were training. I was careful about watching him but if you miss it then like Karen said you cant correct so I used a prevention plan.

[Deborah and Molly]

I can't close her off from the room because that is where she sleeps. She is going to the bathroom during the night in her room. The room is about 400 sq.ft. And we have no way to block it further to give her less space. I thought it would be good since she has room to play in there also while we're at work. She has her toys, bones, and her tether ball, music from the radio and some water.
I think the problem is that I've taught her that she doesn't have to hold it by letting her go on the piddle pads. She should be able to go from 11pm (last potty) until 6 am. I even get up at 6am on the weekends and take her out and for a walk or play time in the back yard.

[Barbara B., Sasha & Oliver]

The easiest way to potty train a dog is via crate training.  When I trained my doodles I would limit the water before I put them in their crate.  For example I would go to bed around 11pm, I would pick up the water at 8 pm and between that time I would take them outside a minimum of 2 times.  By 11 pm their bladders were totally empty.  Both my doodles never had a accident in their crates and they are 100% crate free now.  I worked up to letting them loose during the evening and I would shut my bedroom door.  After a month or so they knew they were not allowed in my bedrood, now I sleep with my bedroom door open and they only just come to the door and check on me. 

Your puppy is still young and the more room you give them the more room they have to pee.  I think by putting down wee-wee pads is giving them the OK to pee in the house.  I never used wee-wee pads because the only acceptable time to pee/poop is OUTSIDE.   While I was home and in training with my doods I would take them out every 1/2 hour on a leash eventhough my back yard is fenced.  I while they were peeing or pooping I would say good girl/boy you go poopies/peepees etc., yeah I know... I sound like a nut but they both understand that I want them to go poopies/peepees.  After a while when they got the poop/pee idea outside then I would just open my back door and let them take care of their own business without a leash.  It takes time and persistance, plus your dog is still young.  But I strongly suggest crarte training it truly works wonders.  Good luck.

[Deborah and Molly]

I do go outside with Molly as often as I can when she potties. When we first got her, up until a month ago, she was on leash to go potty. When I take her out now, she will go when I tell her to "go potty Molly.". I have a crate that the other two dogs used, but I believe it's too small for her. I'll look into purchasing a larger one. Any suggestions on the size I need? And when I start this training, do I only leave her in it for short periods of time during the night or the whole 7 hours?

[Marnie, Stanlee's Mom]

Stanlee's crate is 54"x35"x45" in size.  Our dogs do not sleep in our bed but they DO sleep in our bedroom so the crate is currently sitting at the foot of our bed.  I would slowly introduce her to the crate while you are home should she get uncomfortable.  I've always crate trained from a very young age so I don't have any insite as to what would be best for Molly.  I would also use an old sheet or blanket and cover the crate to give it a cave-like atmosphere, Molly will most likely be drawn to the crate more quickly if you do this.  Put her in the room with the crate door open and toss a treat in there for her to venture in and get the treat herself.  Make the introduction fun for her so she is drawn to the crate and not afraid of it.  Leave the crate door open while you are at home and let Molly hang out in the room to explore it on her own.  Remember, this will not be an over-night success story so be patient and Molly will eventually catch on.