Potty training troubles! Need help!

[Peter Oprisko]

My wife and I got our miniature goldendoodle "Buddy" from a reputable breeder on February 21(when he was 8 weeks old).  We started with the potty traing from the getgo, but unfortunately there has been very little progress.  Indeed, Buddy is content doing his business randomly in his crate(which is located in a fenced-in area 5 feet from the back door of our house leading outside to the yard where we try to get him to do his business).  When he IS outside(in our back yard surrounded by a privacy fence), he is SO distracted, it is EXTREMELY difficult to get him to pee or poop.  When he does go outside, it is usually after a long while(10-20 minutes).  More often than not, he will not go outside, and then when we return him to his crate inside, he'll go within a few minutes(in the crate).

 

    We have tried the "bell-on-the doorknob" training method, but he only thinks it is a toy and will ring it relentlessly.  He WILL NOT signal us that he needs to go out, but barks AFTER he has done his business in his crate.  My wife and I work at home, so we are able to provide more attention and care to Buddy than most owners might be able to.  Despite this seeming advantage, we can barely take our eyes off of him for fear he will go in his crate(yes, he's that fast).  We NEVER know when it's going to happen(even though we have had him on a regular eating schedule since the beginning).

 

   At night,  we are now setting the alarm to wake us up every hour between Midnight and 6:AM to take him out.  Unfortunately, even with this frequency, he often slips through the cracks(and we discover his mess when we go to take him out).  The other night, he deficated 4 times in his crate(sometimes eating it, although we are hopeful that he is learning not do that because of our use of pineapple in his food as well as the product FOR-BID).

 

  This is our first adventure with a puppy(and it is wearing heavily on us).  We have had dogs before(different breeds from 9 months up), and have NEVER experienced such exhausting and exasperating issues.  So, doodle-lovers, when does the FUN of having this type of dog actually begin???  Will he outgrow this behavior???  If so, any idea how long it may take??? Another month?  Another year?  Is this housebreaking difficulty a common experience?  Any advice(or empathy) would be helpful!

                          Sincerely,

                          Sleepless sh*t cleaners in Chicago

[Eva (Lilo and Rocky)]

Seems to me that he thinks his crate is his potty. It probably smells like potty by now so unless you thoroughly clean it, he may continue to do his business there. Perhaps stop crating him for a while until he figures out that potty business should happen outdoors. You could use the liner from the crate to take outside and he may just go there because of the familiar smell. Give him plenty of time outside and praise him when he pees or poops. You could also change his feeding time at night to allow for a poop session before everyone goes to bed. If you remove the crate from the picture temporarily, you could tether him to your bed so he doesn't run away to poop elsewhere in the house. Or, you could let him sleep in the bathroom, which is what we did when our dogs were babies. We let them pee & poop in the shower (I put some astroturf down), and they outgrew the need to go at night within a few months. At least they had a place to go that was easy to clean up and we didn't have to get up during the night.

Another thought I had was that he might have figured out that he gets attention when he poops in the crate, or he may be nervous. Is he sleeping next to you? Puppies are social creatures and he may be lonely, bored, or nervous of being left alone all night.

Note that when your pup has an accident indoors, you must clean really well to remove all the smells!! You can tether him to yourself or your wife during the day so you can catch him if he has an accident and take him outside immediately. Leaving a young puppy alone to roam around along will surely leave you with puddles to clean up in various spots. Puppies, like human babies, require a ton of attention and will cause some sleep deprivation in the beginning! But getting up every hour should NOT be necessary.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I would take him outside on a leash and take him to one specific area to do his business; that will stop the "distractions". Don't let him just run around loose on his own. Once he "performs", praise him to the moon and then give him a little play time off-leash. Get on a regular schedule of taking him out to do his business, don't wait until he gives you a sign.
Eva is right about having to neutralize the odors where he has gone indoors, too. You can't just clean it up, you must use an odor neutralizer designed for that purpose and really make sure the area gets saturated.
I would speak to the "reputable" breeder about this, too. It's unusual in my experience for a puppy who has lived indoors with his mother and littermates to be soiling his sleeping area, especially on a regular basis, unless he does have an illness. These doodle puppies seem to be loaded with giardia, no matter where they come from...that could definitely make a puppy have to defecate several times a night. Having the vet run a fecal is a good idea.
Good luck.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Peter, another thought; after rereading your discussion, it seems that Buddy is spending most of his time in the crate, even when you and your wife are both home? Or am I reading that wrong?
Do you allow him to run around indoors with supervision, or is he only out of the crate when he's outside? If that's the case, it isn't surprising that he is distracted and won't "go" outdoors. I hope this isn't the case.
Also, how big is the crate? A crate that's large enough to allow him to "get away" from the mess isn't good for housebreaking, either.
Catching a dog in the act of "going" indoors is one of your most effective tools for housebreaking. There are two messages you have to get across...that indoors is the wrong place, and that outdoors is the right place. As I mentioned before, the pups' mother usually does some of that work for you.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Just to build on this.....It is much easier to housebreak your dog during the day when you are home. I would tether him to you ALL day and ALL evening until it's time for him to go to bed...then put him in his crate. That way you will catch him in the act. I really literally mean to tether him all the time...never let him loose in the house at this point. Take him out on a leash at regular intervals...probably every 45 mins for now. Take him to the same spot and stand saying "go potty". Then just ignore him. If he goes, lots of praise and treats. If he tries to go while tethered to you, just scoop him up, tell him "no", and bring him outside to finish. If you try this method, I'm betting it will only be a very short time before you have him trained. If you give him his last meal early (I do 4:30 PM) and take him out around 11:00, that should take care of the pooping for the night. If not, as everyone said, you might want to have a stool sample checked. Also, I totally agree that the crate needs to be cleaned with "Nature's Miracle" or a similar product to be sure there is absolutely no scent from prior accidents. I know this probably sounds difficult, but I have found it really works...and very quickly. It's well worth it. The tethering also goes a long way to establishing your leadership which will make training so much easier with everything down the road. Good Luck!

[Nancie & Gracie Doodle]

and to build on what Jane and Karen said...they are right about having the crate just big enough for them to turn around and lay down. Another suggestion is to pull the water soon after the dinner. We used to pull Gracie's water at 6:00 and final outing was just before our bed time around 11:00. I found that white vinegar mixed with water in a spray bottle did a good job of neutralizing the odors. One more thought...is Buddy on any type of antibiotic? Gracie had coccidia when we brought her home. It is a parasite type worm they get from the dirt. The vet put her on an antibiotic and everything we did potty training wise didn't work. She went in her crate but only tinkle, no poops. We had reduced the size of her crate down to a shoe box size because we thought she had too much room. When our trainer showed up and I told her, the first thing she asked is if Gracie were on an antibiotic. Turns out they act as a diuretic and she said the minute we were through with the medication, we would have a new potty trained puppy. She was right. Gracie was training just fine but it was when she was in the crate all night that she just couldn't hold it...no fault of her own.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I haven't ever had long term problems housebreaking a dog, but it seems to me that something might be wrong. Has Buddy had a thorough check-up? I agree with the others about the need to change or de-scent his crate. My son's doberman got into the habit of using a specific spot in our dining room and we tried many things but the one thing that did work was to set a chair over the spot so that it was unavailable.

[Peter Oprisko]

Thanks for all the prompt responses! To answer the questions: Yes, we've taken stool samples to the vet, and they have come back normal. When we take him out to potty, we take him to a designated area to do his business, and WE stand in one spot, but Buddy does NOT. He wants to run and play, and pulls strenuously on the leash(or he'll hump our legs). He RARELY stays still in on spot, and we are grateful when we see him finally begin to circle and pee or poo(if he does--like we said, it takes a LONG time). If he goes outside, we give him a treat and generous praise. There have been rare ocassions when he has pooped twice while beiung outside(I think it's happened about 5 times or less).
I am the designated crate liner cleaner, and I thoroughly wash and scrub the crate liner with hot water and dish washing liquid in a utility tub in our nearby laundry room. Then, I dry it, and douse it with Nature's Best brand odor remover. The crate is just large enough for him to turn around in(we've had to expand the size since he has doubled in size since we got him a month ago).
Since we got him, we have been feeding him(and letting him have water) at 8:AM, 12:Noon, and 5:PM. We have designated play times(around 15-minutes in duration) before and after each feeding session. We take him every couple hours during the day to do his business until bed around 11:PM. We have NOT been having him sleep next to us(except for the first few nights when we brought him home) because it is our understanding that he will become so attached to us that he will suffer EXTREME separation anxiety later on whenever we have to leave him. He barks for a bit when we leave the room, but eventually quiets down(he used to bark for periods up to 2 hours non-stop if we left his sight. Now he may bark for 10 minutes or so).
Buddy is basically tethered to my wife the entire day, and her life has dwindled to simply watching Buddy in case he tries to do his business where he shouldn't. Indeed, she has no life, and I have been left to maintain our home business by myself due the inordinate amount of attention Buddy requires. We have thought about trying to leave him out of the crate(in the fenced-in area by the door leading outside, but we would need to remove the bell from the door knob because he will only play with it(like the boy who cries wolf...everytime he rings it, we coming running...he'll ring it every couple minutes if given the chance).
The suggestion about the bathtub is intriguing except that he is now large enough to climb out of it. We appreciate the suggestions and any other ideas you may have. We have heard the "miraculous" stories of others who supposedly potty trained their golden doodles in a week or two, and methinks they exaggerated!

[Eva (Lilo and Rocky)]

Peter, you say that "it is our understanding that he will become so attached to us that he will suffer EXTREME separation anxiety later on whenever we have to leave him" - how did you come to this conclusion??? Dogs are social creatures, and puppies are not conditioned to be left alone for long periods of time. The 2 hours of barking sort of tells you that. I don't see how keeping him next to you at night would lead to extreme separation anxiety... you could argue that tethering does the same, then.

In terms of the bathroom: we did not leave our dogs in the bathtub. They slept on pillows on the floor and walked into the shower to pee/poop.

Of course your dog is excited to go outside to explore and likes to run around!!! That's perfectly normal. Why don't you take him on a short on-leash walk before you let him roam? May condition him to pee. Just an idea. Good luck, sounds like your dog is 100% normal. All puppies require ALOT of attention, especially if they are the only dog in the house. They require patience and compassion and thrive on praise and positive reinforcement, just like human babies.

Last point: a reputable breeder will have started potty training their pups before they go to their families. Both of my doodles arrived knowing to pee on grass at 8 and 9 weeks respectively, so the stories are not always exaggerated.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I agree with your comment about a puppy from a good breeder having been started on housebreaking. My last puppy, a poodle, came to me at 9 weeks already paper trained and crate trained, and it took three days to have her 99% house-trained.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I apologize. I started my post before you added this and then came back to it, and didn't see your response until now. It sounds like you've got most of this covered. I must admit I'm baffled by the fact that he's tethered and that has not helped. When he begins to "squat" to go, how is your wife responding? From my experience after a few times of trying to go in that tethered position and then being shuffled outside and rewarded for finishing there, they "get it". I know taking our puppy out every couple of hours right now would never work. We started with every 30 minutes and now we've worked our way up to every hour until bedtime. Are you saying his last meal is at 5:00 and his last trip outside is 11:00, and he still poops in his crate several times during the night?

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

I have been potty training 3 dogs since December 1st. Each dog had their own reason of WHY they were NOT potty trained by the previous owners. Like you, I become frustrated but you really must be persistent with YOUR training. By this I mean--YOU need trained, not the dog, because the dog has NO idea what you want it to do. Two of these dogs were crate trained but by this I mean, trained to go IN a crate. It has been hard to break this habit. Yes, I am still outside, in the rain, snow, cold, and floods potty training a dog tonight.

1. Read about Crate Training--the crate should only be big enough for the dog to lie comfortably down. A dog will not ( unless it has worms or giardia ) go to the bathroom in its own bed unless it HAS too--someone did not let them out on time. Dogs under 6 months have accidents so thinking a dog can be crated for 8 hours is just not possible until they mature physically.

2. Pick a one word command--some use 'potty', some use 'out', be consistent with this word. You will use it forever.

3. Stay with the dog while you are outside--Two of the dogs I just trained were petrified of being outside so I calmly reminded them to go 'Out' all the while you are there. The third dog was fascinated by birds, dogs, car motors... the dogs ADHD was endless. If the dog becomes distracted take a few steps in the opposite direction to refocus your dog. Then when you have the dogs attention, say the command, OUT again. Stay with the dog!

Once the dog has gone go directly back inside with the dog. Give another treat. This way they know what outside is used for.

4. Take treats with you. I have actually been able to leave the treats inside but I swear my pockets were full of crumbs for months. Immediately reward the dog for going ' Out' Say, " Good Out" as you hand them the treat.

5. Lock up the crate if that is where the dog wants to go. The crate should really be used to prevent danger or rest. If you are home, don't use the crate but pay attention to the dog. If you see its nose on the ground, ask the dog if it has to go out. Leash it and take it out with you. When you come back in do not let it have access to the crate.
This step is where YOU have to be trained. Pay attention at all times to the dog. Learn the dogs cue and proceed outside.

6. Accidents in the house. Use a paper towel to clean up the mess and then throw this into your yard. Leave them there. Right now I have an entire roll out there. It is the scent you want to create.

7. Stay Calm The dog knows when you are unhappy. They don't know why you are unhappy, but they know, and this will stifle the best potty training methods.

8. Reward good behavior Ignore the rest.

Good Luck. Tonight, I will be standing in the rain right along with you :) We will get there. This too, shall pass

p.s. The pup I have now can hold urine for 18 hours and stool for 2 days. If she knows I am upset, she won't go. Each day it is different and I too have not had this much trouble. But this one is important ....so I am right there with you.
Your Pup is VERY young. Potty training is can really take up to 4 months to PERFECT. They get it, just not perfect for awhile.

[Nancie & Gracie Doodle]

Some how I seem to remember being told that a puppy can hold themselves one hour for each month old they are, i.e. 3 months = 3 hours. Does that sound right to any of you? Of course, assuming you let them relieve themselves before putting them back in the crate.