PUPPY CLASS - Need Advice! HELP!

[BRADY GOOSE MOORE (Mini Doodle]

Last night was Brady's (13 wks)  first puppy class.   All went really well until we were asked to remove our leashes for the dogs to 'socialize'. There are 7 pups in attendance &  Brady is the smallest, youngest (by 2 weeks) and the only one that isn't black in colour.  The largest dog comes bounding over to Brady - sniffing, mouthing a little (happily it seemed) and Brady sniffed, jumped around and growled, then scooted away under a chair.   I lured him back out - the same thing happened but Brady did not let up the growl until instructor picked him up and just let him 'hang there' while she said "thank you", "thank you".   This scenario was repeated again and Brady reacted the same way.   Really upset me as it's the first time I've ever seen him get agressive!  He has met many dogs at the park and has been happy in each situation - he has played with bigger dogs and rolled around happily without a thought to growl.   So, I am thinking this is NOT FAIR TO PUT HIM IN THIS POSITION - he also came home and "zoomed around yard" like a crazed little beast (never done this before either!)   YIKES!    HELP!!  I'm thinking I   should  withdraw from this (not fun) class!  Perhaps Mama Bears little doodle prefers  HOME SCHOOLING - or is it 'Mama" that prefers it? 

[Tina, Clover, Plus 5 More]

IMO Brady needs to continue for the socialization.  Unless the trainer thought it was a problem or injury could occur.  Was the physicial contact?  It sounds like the growl may have been fear based.  Socialization is important so dogs learn to become comfortable in/with new situations.  If they are not socialized it can create anxiety, fear, aggression......   Brady just needs to be shown how to act in these situations, that's what puppy class is for.

[BRADY GOOSE MOORE (Mini Doodle]

Okay - Thanks everyone for your advice -      I just arrived home from a walk in the park across the street (nice because I can see who (dogs & owners) are there).   Today we happened upon 5yr. golden retriever and his little sister (5 mos. gldn retrvr) whom Brady had met 2 weeks ago.  During that first 'meeting' (sniff, play, roll, jump) the 5 yr. old basically ignored Brady and the (very rambuctious sittle sister with 'good' owner) was just that - playful, excited, - Brady YELPED (not growled) and the owner told it was o.k. - Brady was just establishing his 'place'.  They all had a good time.

Today, (and of course I'm thinking, after that first puppy class last night)  Brady's first reaction to the 5 mos. old was to GROWL while the  large 5 mos old was jumping around playfully.   We pulled them apart,  tried again,   Brady growled again.   The owner asked me if it was o.k. that we let Brady 'sniff' out the 5 mos. olds' butt.   A quick sniff around on Brady's part and BINGO - all was well.   They then continued to 'be together' playfully and without incident for about 5 - minutes.   We simultaneously met a 9 mos. golden doodle - she and Brady rolled/jumped/played with no incident.    Was the 'being shown how to act' actually being directed to 'sniff' the other dog out?   Should I suggest this to our trainer?

[Adina P]

Are you sure it was an aggressive growl?  Some dogs are just more vocal.  Do you trust your trainer?  Does she have lengthy experience and with different breeds?  If so, then I wouldn't worry about it.  At the same time socialization doesn't have to be a no-holds-barred-free-for-all.  It just means exposure to the world, being near other dogs, etc.  At this age I think it's fine to let dogs kind of get rough and tumble and work things out.  As pups mature, I'm not as much of a fan of letting strange dogs play all the time.  I want my dogs to feel comfortable around other dogs...but not feel this INTENSE urge to play with every dog they see and to act on it.

[BRADY GOOSE MOORE (Mini Doodle]

No I'm not sure it was an aggressive growl but Brady certainly didn't seem happy either!  Since he came home with us I have rarely heard him cry, whimper, bark or growl.     I can probably count the number of times I've heard him actually 'bark'  - maybe a couple of times only.   He has never whimpered or cried for anything at all.   He does not seem to be a particularly 'vocal' dog.

[Wendy and Eddie]

My dogs can get the zoomies after a class or training session with me. It's like they want to release the tension of listening and following directions. One of my former dogs would zoom around like crazy even after long walks (6 to 10 miles), like she was soooo happy to be off the leash and not have to heel anymore. I think it's like kids going home at the end of a school day and aacting crazy, they can let loose.

[Jennifer and Jack]

I definitely agree with Tina. Jack had some issues with big dogs when he was a puppy. Totally my fault, total lack of training on my part. He went to day care and all kinds of play groups but as a puppy he was restricted to only play with little dogs, which was okay with me at the time. This was before DK. Jack decided he needed to prove himself to big dogs and everytime we were around one he would growl at them, unless they were old.. Somehow he did not growl at old big dogs.

 

Anyway, my point is, if you don't address it now while they are little and still very teachable, it will be harder when they are older.  I have swallowed my heart many a times as Jack has played with huge German Shepherds and in my mind I kept thinking OMG if Jack snaps at this dog, Jack is going to get eaten.

 

Because I did not know that I needed to address this when he was little, I realized at about eight months of age. It took a bit of work to get him to not react to big puppies. I had to spend hours and hours in PetSmart on Saturday, I hate Petsmart on Saturday because of all the shelter puppies being there, and how sad it is.

 

Anyway, what your trainer is doing with your puppy is what I had to do with Jack, I made him greet properly big dogs. He eventually caught on and the need to prove himself went away. I am fairly confident in his skills to play with dogs of all sizes and ages now. I do however always watch him closely with new dogs until I see how things are going to roll.

 

If you learn anything from this story, learn that "home schooling" dogs is not going to teach them to behave in the real world, " In my unprofessional opinion the best thing to do is expose them to as many situations as possible and have them learn to be okay with it as a puppy. Sometimes they have to be corrected.

 

Even the trainer picking your puppy up was very kind of her....She was providing security for the puppy, My trainer would not allow me to pick Jack up. He has to hang tough and behave himself on the floor with the big dogs even when he felt threatened.

 

I do not have the best trained dog. He still jumps like a pogo stick when he gets excited but he is well socialized and he does not fear anything. except a water bottle.

 

 

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I really don't think I would withdraw from the class.  At 13 weeks, I doubt this was an aggressive growl.  He's just learning right now. The growl was probably a little bit of fear of the larger dog, but hopefully additional exposure will increase his confidence....and that is a good thing.

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

I agree that if you have a trust in the trainer that he/she knows what they are doing and knows how to ensure that the socialization happens in an appropriate manner then I think it is important to continue to go.  If that is the case, you will learn some valuable information as well.

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

I found that puppy classes and Tara were not a good match. A similar thing happened to her in her first class. Although she didn't growl but showed her discomfort in other ways.  At the end of the class all the puppies were released and they all chased Tara into a corner. She screamed like she was being killed!!!! OMG I was FREAKED!!!  So the trainer took control and I tried THREE more classes and they just did not work for her.  And like Brady, she was fine with dogs in other settings.  But running with a pack of puppies was not her thing AT ALL. We dropped the class and Mama Bear and TaraBear started home schooling.

[BRADY GOOSE MOORE (Mini Doodle]

I've been thinking about going back - my husband and I learned so much about all kinds of things - very helpful and it, I know, will help us to be 'on the same page' with Brady.   I thought when the time comes for all the pups to go off-leash Mama Bear'll  just pick him up and let Brady Bear watch from her, - lap or maybe we'll just  leave.   This little goose has such a nice disposition, I don't want anything to risk altering that.  I like your 'sense of humour - thanks for that!

 

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

I think that is a good idea. You know your little boy better than the trainer. All dogs are different just like all people as far as how they approach life.  I wouldn't call Tara fearful but she is cautious when in new situations. She likes to have time to assess things at her own speed. Then she is usually relaxed and fine but if we try to rush her she gets overwhelmed.  So maybe after a few more classes Brady Bear will be more relaxed and ready to join in puppy playtime!  Keep us posted!

[Jen, Lachlan, and Declan]

Lachlan had a similar reaction his first puppy class. There was an older, larger puppy there who wanted to play so badly he just bowled him over ... Lach managed to stuff his entire 60 pounds under a chair! He didn't growl, but he did vocalize some and his body language was pure "OMD mom, make it go awayyyyyyyy!" I stood between he and the larger pup so Lach didn't feel quite so threatened, but he never did come out from behind me. That's the first time I've seen Lachlan genuinely scared to the point of needing to hide behind mum's skirts, as it were.

His second class was amazing ... it was like this little light-bulb went on over his head, "ohhhh, this isn't so bad ... and ooh la la, that cute little Golden Retriever girl, I wanna get closer to her!" Next thing I know he's in the middle of the scrum, shoulder-bumping the bigger feller out of the way (young love, so cute) and racing around the room with all the other pups.

That same night there was a young German Shepherd there for his first night. He was acting out his fear, growling and barking at the other pups, so the trainer took him around the room and had us each hold our pups so this guy could smell bottom, then turning the GS around so our pups could smell his bottom in return. By the end of the hour, this young feller was running around happily with everyone else, fear gone.

Okay, opinion follows: From what you describe, Brady was feeling fearful (at Brady's age, that's highly unlikely to have been an aggressive growl) and needs this socialization badly so he'll get over his fear and know how to "speak dog" so he can assess for himself whether he's in actual danger or not. If you trust your trainer to be keeping an eye out for real problems, I'd stick it out.

And yep, Lach has the zoomies after class too, just like a kid being let out of school!