Question For Those Familiar With Prednisone -UPDATE

[Nancie & Gracie Doodle]

So many of you know that we are fighting an autoimmune disease called Masticatory Myositis with Prednisone. Gracie Doodle has pretty much been on it since April 22 with a one month remission...or so we though!  Things just keep getting worse and worse from the side effects of the medication.  Gracie is losing her hair and now in the last few weeks has sores that become bloody cropping up on her heels and between her toes.  She was treated with an antibiotic for 3 weeks which sort of kept it a bay but when we stopped the medication it came raging back on all feet.  The doctor took a scraping last week and sent it to the lab to be cultured.  He looked in his microscope and saw "rods" instead of the round cells you usually see.  He said rods are not good because it is a different type of bacteria that is harder to fight and requires a specific type of antibiotic.  That is why the culture is being done.  They need to find an antibiotic to give her that will kill the bacteria.  He is confused because dogs are put ON Prednisone a lot when they have hot spots or skin allergies.  My Doodle is responding the wrong way...she should NOT be getting skin sores on her body!  Gracie's skin has always been perfect with not one hot spot or sore...100% healthy and perfect...until now!  Last night she was playing in the back yard with her "monsters".  DH throws them over the roof from the kitchen porch and she runs out and intercepts them on the lawn.  They do this all the time.  But this time she came in with a dripping bloody foot.  She had lost her toe nail on the outside back toe and all that is showing is a white pulpy looking stump!  WTD now?  There was blood all over the walk way from the lawn and then on my sea grass rug under the kitchen table.  I tried to clean it up but she was none too cooperative and I just needed to get the bleeding to stop. Finally I put a huge gauze pad on it and wrapped it with the stretch wrap.  Then I put one of her Muttluks on.  Today we washed her feet with an antibiotic shampoo and I then put one of my socks on and wrapped it to keep it on.  She wants to lick it but is also walking with her toes up in the air putting her weight on the back heel of her foot.  For the last couple of weeks her toe nails have been bleeding on the end because she is wearing them down to the quick from running for her tennis ball.  But this is an activity she has done every day of her life!  This leads me to think there is something wrong with the integrity of her nails and they are softening up because of the Prednisone. 

So my question is...if Prednisone can cause you to lose your hair then can it cause your "nails" (claws) to fall off?  I am only asking because both hair and nails are made of the same thing, therefore if it is attacking the hair might it also attack the integrity of the nail or nail bed?  Needless to say...Calling the Vet in the morning!  I am suppose to hear from him this week about her culture and go pick up her antibiotic.  I also am making a call to another vet to get a second opinion!  I don't know how much more this happy, sad, happy, sad girl can take (Gracie...me too!)  If she could only talk and tell me where she hurts and how she feels.  So sad :(

UPDATE

Today we got Gracie's culture back for the skin problems.  She has three types of bacterial infections going on in her body!  I am going to list them because I know of at least two of you who are going to give it some thought and research.

1.  Corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis

2.  Pseudomonas aeruginosa

3.  Methicillin resistant coagulase negative staph species

Organism #1 has an abundant growth , #2 has a Moderate growth and #3 has a Moderate growth.

The vet then had to look at the list of antibiotics that are resistant and ones that work and come up with one that will take care of all three.  Lucky for me...It is only $200 for a one month supply giving one tablet a day.  Zeniquin 100 mg.  I then asked what the side effects would be with THIS drug.  He said oh...maybe some diarrhea and upset stomach.  I just got her back to normal from a huge case of diarrhea.  All I know is that every time we add a new drug we get huge set backs and something else crops up!!

 

I did mention this Dr. Shelton who is at UCSD right here in San Diego who studies neuromuscular diseases one of which is Gracie's Masticatory Myositis.  She is the one who discovered the 2M Antibody Blood Test which we had ($400).   You can't e-mail her unless you are a Vet.  I asked my Vet if maybe he should try to contact her and he asked me why??  I just sort of went blank.  He said we know Gracie has it and we are treating it exactly as the protocol calls for.  It is the Prednisone we are having issues with.  So I guess that is out and he won't be contacting her.  Now that I have the culture results back I am ready to call another vet for a second opinion.  I wanted to have the most updated facts available to give him before making the appointment.  So I am off to make a phone call!  

[Linda, Charlie Brown and Beau]

Hi Nancie~  I am sorry to hear Gracie is having difficulties.  We had a standard poodle that got Immune Mediated Hemolytic Anemia and was on massive prednisone for many weeks.  His side effects were mainly excessive thirst and then having difficulty holding his urine during the night.  It was a difficult time.  I hope you can get some help from one of these vets.  If that does not happen, is there a veterinarian college near you with an animal clinic?  Usually they are current on all the latest treatments available.  Hang in there!  Pawsitive thoughts coming your way!

[Nancie & Gracie Doodle]

Thanks for the though Linda.  Come to think of it there is an animal hospital/clinic that I have passed on the freeway about 15 minutes away.  It is visible from the freeway overpass so I would have to figure how to get to it.  The sign that you see from the freeway says University of California Davis Animal Emergency Hospital or something like that.  University of California at Davis is an excellent veterinarian college but it is up in Sacramento, CA which probably a 10 hour drive.  But, for my sweet Gracie, I would drive up to my daughters (which I do with Gracie anyway) who lives in San Jose, CA and is an 8 hour drive.  Then I could stay there and commute Gracie up to Sacramento, find a Westin hotel (they take dogs) and stay until I get some answers!  I do have tons and tons of Starwood Preferred Guest points and could easily stay in any of their properties for free...Westin being one of them!  I will keep that option open...thanks!

[F, Calla & Luca]

Nancie, look at the link for La Jolla.

[Nancie & Gracie Doodle]

Thanks for the info F.  Dr. Diane Shelton is the very doctor who discovered the blood test that is suppose to tell you if you have MM.  It is an expensive test and has a 15% chance of coming back false negative. That is the very test we had for Gracie and it did come back negative.  But, we have to assume that she has MM because of all the other symptoms and reactions to the poking and prodding.  I have been searching around the different links to the UCSD Clinic but they don't accept outside questions from dog owners.  The e-mail is only for professionals so I think I may have my my vet contact them for advice and/or help.  

[F, Calla & Luca]

Good. 

[Christine & Camus]

Nancie, I am so sorry to hear what Gracie is going through.  I do not know much about prednisone and have no experience with what Gracie is experiencing.  The only thing I can offer is that Camus just lost a nail, it just fell out, and it bled profusely.  I created a bandage for him with a large thick gauze pad around the paw, wrapped it with gauze to secure it, and finished  it with the stretchy vet wrap (you can get it at Target).  The vet cleaned it up, wrapped it in the same way, and put him on antibiotics.  Of course Gracie Doodle's situation is far more serious, however the wrapping really helped.  My instructions were to change it every 2 days and keep it dry.  Booties seemed to irritate the paw so I put a plastic bag over it when he went outside.  He was only allowed to go out to take care of business, no playing allowed for about 3 weeks.  My thoughts are with you and Gracie Doodle.

[Nancie & Gracie Doodle]

Thank you Christine.  That is basically what we are doing with Gracie right now.  I no longer have the boot on because as you said, it can irritate.  I keep the stretchy wrap on hand so that is what is holding on the cotton sock right now.  I am calling the vet first thing in the morning!  Gee, we were just there last Wednesday!  Thank goodness for Pet Insurance!!!  Gracie is going to go crazy not going outside or playing but I know we have to do what we have to do.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Nancie, I'm so sorry Gracie is having all this trouble.

Jackdoodle has been on prednisone since December, and has not had these side effects, even at the beginning, when the dosage was very high to suppress the immune system. He did have the behavior changes, the thirst, excessive appetite, panting, lethargy, etc. but his skin, coat and nails have been fine. And prednisone does stop all of the skin issues when his allergies flare.

Is Gracie on any other meds besides the prednisone? What dosage is she on? Is it possible that they have her on too high a dosage?

I wish there was something I could do or say to make it better. I hope you can get some answers from the vet and Gracie will start to feel better very soon. Hugs from JD and me.

[Nancie & Gracie Doodle]

Thanks Karen.  Gracie is on 2 Prednisones a day and each is 20 mg.  She was on Cefpodoxime 150 mg for three weeks because of the first sore on her heel.  It was clearing up but the minute we finished the last pill she started having sores appear on all four paws between the toes, heels losing hair and bleeding and then her nails wearing down to the quick and bleeding.  She always runs for tennis balls so the amount of running she was doing was nothing out of the ordinary.  In fact we were doing less running lately.  I did start her on Omega 3 less than a week ago and also some probiotic powder I bought at the pet store.  She was having diarrhea all last week so I figured it would help put some of the flora and fauna back into her system.  Last Wednesday the vet started her back on the Cefpodoxime until he gets the results this week on her skin culture.  He then will change the antibiotic to one that will work on the skin infections.  That is all she is on.  

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

She's on the same prednisone dosage that JD was on when he was first diagnosed last December, and his weight was about 72 lbs then. I'm so sorry she's having this reaction to it, it did not affect Jack's skin or nails at all. :(

[Nancie & Gracie Doodle]

And Gracie's weight is 65-70 lbs. so she is not far off from JDs weight and stature.  Go figure???

[Lynda Kamrath]

I am so sorry to hear that Gracie (and you) are going through this.  I have been on prednisone several times because of internal poison oak and it is not fun.  Hondo was also on it when he had jaundice and he had trouble with his bladder and he leaked all the time.  He wore sanitary napkins held on with a camisole (on backwards).  I would just slip off the camisole when he went out to do his business.  Poor guy.  I think there is a photo of him decked out in my photos.

I hope Gracie is back to normal behavior soon.  I'm sure it is so hard for her not to be able to do the things she normally likes to do, but it is probably best if she takes it easy for a while.  Poor Gracie and poor Nancie.

On the fun side, how is the baby doing?  They grow up so fast.  Have you been up here lately?