training collar

[Kimberly and Mikey]

I have a 9 month old f2 standard GD. He went through 6 weeks of board and train and did I complete 180. We work him everyday as told but he just doesn't seem to listen anymore. We use a pinch collar currently and we even leave the leash attached since he has been acting up. He is very dominant. We even took him back to the trainer for 3 days for a refresher and she said he was even more challenging. I was looking into a shock collar. I know a few people with doodles use them. I was trying to get advice on the best one. When I say shock collar I mean more for the vibrate and noise feature.

thank you

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Thanks, Jessica!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Sorry I'm late to respond....yesterday was a busy day.  What I am confused about is that I was taught that a pinch/prong collar is always used with a leash.  The trainers I worked with did not feel it was safe to just leave the pinch collar on the dog at all times.  When you said "we use a pinch collar currently and we even leave the leash attached", I got the impression that you were or had been using the collar without a leash rather than just in a training context.  I have trained a very difficult dog and one thing I learned and feel strongly about is that the collar is only a tool.  I used a choke collar, a prong collar, and for a few lessons even a shock collar.  My Murphy became collar wise very quickly....the collar wasn't the answer for him.  It involved a whole way of life where training and discipline were part of his entire day to make the difference.  I was only sharing this learning.  Sounds like you pretty much know what you want to do and that's fine.  I wish you the best.

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

KImberly, I am one of the old farts on DK and I will tell you that Jane is one of the most caring, loving, and helpful members on DK. She is really trying to just gather some further information to help you. I use a pinch collar on both of my dogs. Their combined weight is 170 pounds and on a normal collar, Fudge gags and chokes herself repeatedly on a walk. They line up for me to put on the pinch collars and it really is no big deal for them and they don't choke trying to get to a squirrel or something.  Are they still perfect? OMG, no...LOL! Fudge has such a strong prey drive that I have looked into a shock collar and I know an exceptional trainer that works mainly with the shock collars and has excellent results with them. I am the world's worst dog trainer and a pushover, so I know I probably would never follow through, but I still think with a better dog trainer (not me) and an experienced trainer to help you, they can be beneficial. Fudge is so reactive to so many things, I was always worried it would just make it worse.  Luckily, she has gotten better the older she gets.  Your dog may also just be going through a rebellious stage. I can say with my dogs, praise is the biggest motivator to both of them and I try to make training fun for them. Now with all that said, if you had the choice to get my help or Jane's, take Jane's help :) LOL

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

LOL....thanks Laurie.  Don't sell yourself short - you have done an amazing job with Fudge!

[Kimberly and Mikey]

Thank you so much Alli!!! I will look that up! I have heard about the e collar from another trainer. We did have an option to go with a 2 week training with ecollar but my vet recommended it would be best for board and training for a longer period. Long story short our GD was from a puppy mill and at the time we didn't know it. He has no bite inhibition AT ALL.. thing were very bad!! I had 3 personal trainers walk out and give me my money back and walk out saying they couldn't help me. My whole day pretty much consists on NO, OFF, NO, LEAVE IT etc....

thank you

[Alli]

I'm sorry it's been so tough for you.  I truly believe with good training you will have the relationship with your dog that you always wanted!  Charlie started nipping pretty bad around 4 months, especially with my poor son--I really think it's because he was the smallest one in our family and his hands were closest to the ground!  The nipping was more than just puppy behavior.  He started to bite a little harder and it I could tell it would have become a problem if not handled.  Our trainer kept Charlie for about 12 days and trained him periodically during that time. Another thing that she did which I think was vital to Charlie's success was that she brought Charlie home to us rather than just my husband or myself going to pick him up.  She talked with all four of us and showed us everything he had learned and how to correct him and what to say, etc.  That really helped because he was hearing commands from all of us, not just one of us.  Charlie's collar is a Garmin.  There are tons of good collars but I really like this one.  It's expensive but in this case you get what you pay for.  I'm sure you are getting him lots of exercise and attention--as you probably know this will help with biting and bad behavior.  As they say--a good dog is a tired dog!  Best of luck to you--if you need any more help or encouragement just send me a message!

[Kimberly and Mikey]

Yes. I have done it all. He can run a marathon and still comes in and things fall apart. Our trainer did numerous sessions with the whole family and then the last 2 were just me because I am the primary. I have had many puppies but never this stubborn. WOW. I just hate when people judge. I have done every measure possible to not get to this point but it's at a point where we get complete control or he has to go. I have a 6 and a 4 year old and they don't even want him near him. This has been rough. They just asked me this morning if we could go trade him for a good dog. ugh   I am not sure that me trainer does the e collars but I am looking into a private trainer to help me when I purchase one. Where did you buy yours

[Alli]

You can see the one that we bought on Amazon here.  Click on "here' for the link.  I see you are in Texas...I would give you the name of our trainer but we are in Kentucky!  I hate it for your family.  I'm sure he's probably worse with your kids because they are small and he thinks they are playmates.  I would put in the time to research trainers and think about sending him away for an extended period of time, if you are committed to keeping him in your family for a long time.  It will be worth the investment. He may just be an unruly teenager right now and in a few months I bet he'll straighten out!  

[Kimberly and Mikey]

maybe I should have been a little more clear in my actual post but I have exhausted all resources and we are working my daily. We do follow the instructions from out trainer. I'm not working alone on this one. I definitely feel this is the last resort but I also know we pretty much there. I have put this off for months now

[Adina P]

I have no philosophical issue with a remote collar or electronic collar. I don't like calling them 'shock' collars because that isn't their point--except perhaps when you're trying to teach them that a VERY specific behavior is something they should NEVER do (counter surf, chase cats, etc).  And even then there are other ways to pursue first.  The main purpose is to be able to deliver corrections or reminders from a distance (hence the term 'remote').   Start with the How To articles and then go through the rest of the Articles section:  http://www.loucastle.com/articles/how-to

But I think most people consider them "the final step" or the highest strength training for the most difficult dog.  But the thing is that doesn't necessarily lead to better behavior overall.  It could take 1-2 months just for the pre-training so your dog doesn't become 'collar-wise' and behave with the collar but not without.  In any case, as you consider this, I recommend you read as many articles on this site as possible:  http://www.loucastle.com/  -- I've emailed back and forth with Lou and he's very helpful!

[Jess & Stewart]

If you've seen any of my recent posts, you'll know that Stew is challenging to say the least. None of the trainers I have consulted have said he is at the point of needing an e-collar although I could see where it would be effective with his guarding. 

He has a bad case of resource guarding. I'm doing everything in my power to modify his behavior before I go to an e-collar or drugs. I have a standing appt with Penn Vet behaviorists if the behavior gets any worse. I totally know what you're going through. 

One thing my trainer just suggested to me was that Stew needed A LOT more for the good things he does. He actaully suggested that I have his treat bag attached to me 24/7 & "plow" him with treats when he is calm and ridiculously reward him for good behavior. So over the weekend, I gave him a treat practically every 15-30 minutes when he was just laying calmly, when he sat after greeting people, when I told him to get off my new couch since I could tell her would start guarding, once he jumped off, he got 4 treats, then more when I made him sit, stay while I walked past him to sit on the couch. 

I'm doing "NILIF" but my trainer has joked that Stew is on the "When Stew does nothing, treat!" plan. LOL. 

I just read that you have 2 small children. I'll tell you honestly I've considered rehoming Stew or giving him to my more experienced cousins BUT they have small children and I would be sick if Stew's guarding affected them or hurt them in anyway. I don't bring Stew to my nieces and nephews because he is so excitable and they would squeal or scream if he tried to nip which only makes it worse for Stew. I come across so many kids when I walk around Penn who want to run up and pet and hug the "happy, red fluffy" dog. I tell them he gets very excited and Stew is like a little kid himself. Then I have Stew do some tricks for them rather than having them greet Stew. On Saturday, I was able to hold Stew by his harness and he gave 2 kids high fives. They just thought it was the coolest thing, lol. It was HUGE accomplishment for Stew. I wish I got it on video. He even licked one of the kids. I almost cried because he was just so good. 

I wonder if your dog really isn't a good fit for your family. I still have Stew because I am bound and determined to get through to him, he actually has gotten much better in the past 2 months and I know I won't be having kids for a long while, if at all. If I did have kids or if Stew was around my family more, I think I would have rehomed him. 

[Kimberly and Mikey]

My husband did a lot of research and we really can't have shedding because my son is so allergic. We then came upon the golden doodle. Every dog is different but mine seems over the top. I have tried all resources. I am not just saying let me throw a e collar on him and go with it. I just need something to help the situation now. We have invested so much time and money into this dog.I keep hearing wait until he is 2 or 3 and he calms more, but honestly I don't think that is my problem. He knows his commands and I work him daily. He is just so dominant, stubborn and too smart lol. There are some good time but mostly not. I know there isn't a perfect dog but It's hard seeing everyone I know with GD's and they can actually use a regular collar or harness and Mikey can't even be without the pinch collar. Just yesterday he saw someone and drug me through the ground even with the pinch collar. Boy, that was a first. He's getting bigger and stronger.