unexplained soft stool/diarrhea

[Nick Pietras]

Hello!

We're having some troubles with our 7 month old labradoodle Gus. 2 weeks ago, he woke us up in the middle of the night vomiting. I took him outside, and he had some diarrhea. Woke up the next morning, and he had a little more. He was acting normal though. I fed him breakfast and he seemed fine. Fast forward two days, and he woke us up in the middle of the night, needing to go out. More diarrhea. That happened two more times throughout the night. The next morning, I decided to fast him and take him to the vet. Couldn't get to the vet until that afternoon. He seemed alright throughout the day, was drinking water, sleeping. But he was still bright eyed and alert. I took him to the vet, along with a stool sample. The vet examined him and put him on metronidazole. The stool sample was negative. I then started him on a diet of boiled brown rice (organic) and chicken. Did that for 3-4 days, slowly mixing more of his food (California Naturals) in. As of last Sunday, he was back to his normal diet of California Naturals, plain organic yogurt (tablespoon) and a bit of ground chicken at night. He was still on the metronidazole. His stools were soft and pudding like, but his energy levels were fine and he was acting normal. He finished the medicine on Wednesday. Saturday night, he had some more diarrhea. He's back on the chicken/rice. No more diarrhea, but he is sleeping more...but he is still alert and active when we engage him.

We are absolutely certain that he did not eat anything he should'nt have. We've been watching him like a hawk this past two weeks, and keeping a very strict diet (no snacks, etc).

Is it worth bringing him back to the vet? I hate to just dope him up with more medicine, especially when I don't know if its actually doing anything. Metronidazole does not kill bacteria...is it possible he has something like that. He is on heartworm (interceptor), which also kills hook and roundworm. Any advice would be great!

Thanks!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Did the vet give you any indication of the cause of the diarrhea once parasites were ruled out? When he was only eating the chicken and brown rice (no kibble) did he have normal stools, or were they still very soft?

[Nick Pietras]

The vet didn't give any indication other than "one of those thing"....he prescribed the metronidazole because it is used for "unexplained diarrhea". His stools were more normal with just the chicken and brown rice.

Is it possible his food is suddenly not working with his system anymore?

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

There are a few of us on DK who have gone through this with our dogs. My dog (one year old ALD) started with soft stools (and occasional diarrhea) when he was a few months old. We went through several different types of food over the next 6 months. Each time he would do well on the new food for a few weeks, and then we'd start all over again. I believe we tried 6 or 7 different brands of food during this period. At that point I was extremely frustrated (and we were out of high quality foods to try), so we went back to the vet. She again tested for parasites...this time sending the sample away for an in-depth analysis. Ultimately she diagnosed our Dood with Irritable Bowel Disease. At that point, with great help from the DK Food Group, I worked up a home cooking plan which the vet approved. Since then his problems have disappeared. We have never had another soft stool. I'm not saying you have to jump to any conclusions at this point. I think you probably need another conversation with your vet, and you might introduce (slowly) a different food once things stabilize with the chicken & rice diet. I do "feel your pain", as we went through months of trial and error with our Guinness. The good news is he was always healthy, and this didn't have any lasting negative impacts. Good luck and keep up posted. You might want to join the Food Group. If your problem is food related, you'll need these DK experts.

[Carole (*Koda*Monty*Bindi)]

We had this with our Madison a month or so ago. She didn't have the vomiting but she had diarrhea. Everything tested negative and she was treated with pumpkin to slow things down a bit and bind her up and plenty and plenty of liquids to keep her hydrated. The only thing that was different in her life was a new bag of food. When I say "new" I mean it was a newly opened bag of the food (Kirklands) she's eaten for the past two years without issue. None of our other dogs had a reaction to it but it's the only thing that we can connect to her diarrhea as it started the day she began the new bag. It's so hard to connect the dots when they get sick sometimes.

Another thought is the Interceptor. I know when Gaston-Cramer was about that same age we started him on comfortis and mixed with the Interceptor it gave him a wallop of a tummy ache. Maybe the Interceptor is bothering his tummy too? We had since found out it was the combo of the two and stopped the comfortis but possibly just the interceptor is bothering your little guy?

Poor little baby.....

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Nick, had Gus been around any strange dogs, say at a dog park or day care, in the 2-3 week period prior to the start of the diarrhea? Is it possible that he drank any standing water from a puddle, gutter pan, basin, etc. in your yard, in the park or anywhere else? Had he been near any rivers, streams, ponds, etc. during that period?

[Nick Pietras]

He hadn't been in any dog parks, but he did share a bowl of water 2 weeks earlier with a friend's dog. He hadn't been near any rivers/streams/ponds...its possible he drank from a puddle or something like that, but not very likely...we live in a condo, so he is never outside on his own.

[Natasha]

Did you slowly reintroduce his food by mixing it in with your chicken/rice combo?

Are you feeding the CA Naturals for puppy? Yes, food can be an issue - as I recall, that food is pretty good, but there can always be something that isn't sitting well and you could try changing to something else.

Frankly, I would consider taking another stool sample in to the vet. Is his stool ever lighter in color than it used to be?

What you are describing sounds like Giardia to me. The same thing happened to us - we just couldn't figure out what was going on and it was sporadic. His energy level was fine but he tossed his cookies every once in awhile (despite not having any bones) and he would have runny stool occasionally. We tried brown rice and chicken and an antacid for 5 days and he was a better, but a month later I was still noticing some softer stool. We took him back to the vet and found he had giardia.

If your vet isn't running the more expensive detection test, then it can be a crap shoot if he detects it. I believe that our vet said that there are three different ways to do the test, each optimized to the type of test being performed (so there are three different tests that each have their own methodology and success rate). Our vet also said that two of the three tests aren't the best at catching giardia but most vets aren't as concerned as they just prescribe an all-purpose bug killer. She gave us a choice and we elected the more expensive but one-time test (cheaper in the long run assuming that is in fact what he has) and, sure enough, that's what it was. We were given two different meds (powders) to give him over the course of 5 days and then did a retest one month later.

Our vet said it takes a full month for the bugs to clear - 5 days of meds and then his immune system is supposed to take over.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I actually thought of Giardia too, and that is probably what Karen was wondering with the standing water question. My vet did say it was unusual for the diarrhea to go away when the food is changed (chicken & rice) if it actually is Giardia. That was something we kept looking for when Guinness went through all the GI issues. I agree the vet will probably suggest the more involved stool testing at this point.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Yep, I was thinking of Giardia. And Natasha is right that one test often won't show it; in fact, it's best to bring several different samples, because unless there are shed cysts in the tiny portion they test, Giardia can be tough to find. And Jane's right that if it is Giardia, the stool won't improve from a food change alone.
California Naturals is just about the best commercial food there is for loose stools/sensitive stomachs. But continuous diarrhea to the point that the dog is waking you at night is a sign that there is some infection or parasite, and this probably isn't really related to food, although IBD is a possibility. It seems to be common in doodles, especially the minis.
The heartworm med might cause diarrhea for a day or so after it's first given, but I can't see it causing a complete change in digestion that lasts two weeks. I definitely think a call to the vet is in order. Just don't let them put Gus on Rx food, and if you want to know why, read this:
http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/why-you...
Hope you get an answer and a solution soon!

[Nick Pietras]

We are feeding CA Naturals puppy, and yes, we slowly introduced it back in to his system by slowly mixing it with the chicken/rice.

Thanks for all your help, everyone. I'm supposed to get a call back from the vet any moment now to discuss what to do next.