Use of Mood Altering Meds

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Murphy's dominance issues have escalated and now we aren't able to leave him alone in the house with our son.  Over the weekend our son, Tim, walked into the den where his dad and I were with both of the dogs.  Murphy jumped up and lunged after him barking and backing him out of the room.  I was right there so I was able to grab his collar and correct him, but our son (who has Down Syndrome and is pretty sensitive) was frightened.  For the rest of the weekend he didn't want to leave his bedroom.  So this is a new level and much more serious than Murphy's dog reactiveness.  I now have Tim doing all of Murph's feedings and whenever he walks into a room where Murph is he tells him to stay and gives the hand signal.  I think this is helping, but I do not trust Murph with Tim at all.  So we're onto Plan B.  We are going to start using an e collar for our training.  Murph is not consistently respecting my corrections when we meet other dogs and that needs to change.  I'm also thinking that he may not be getting enough full out running exercise.  We take him for an hour walk in lots of different places each day and then short potty trips, plus the treadmill if the weather isn't good.  His walks are mostly mental exercise because he is expected to walk right by my side.  So we're going to take him to state land a couple times a week and just let him run.  That may or may not help, but it's worth a try.  I haven't done it in the past because I was not 100% confident in his recall.  I have been keeping him within about a 12 ft radius on these off leash walks.  He will always come to me if he's fairly close.  The ecollar will give me more confidence in this situation.

So that brings me to the question of meds.  I am going to schedule an appointment for Murph with a Vet Behaviorist who practices out of the Specialty Hospital that we used when Guinness had Pancreatitis.  They do a full exam and blood work up before providing a diagnosis.  It will be good to rule out physical causes of Murphy's dominant behavior.  In a brochure that I got from the Behavior Clinic they talk about the use of psychotrophic meds.  They also talk about dietary changes and use of tryptophan for dogs who display dominance aggression.  I have been hoping to avoid this with Murphy, but perhaps it's time.  I think my biggest concern is potential side effects.  When people have side effects to these drugs they are able to talk about it but with a dog we would never know.  The meds could be making Murph feel anxious or uncomfortable and he wouldn't be able to let us know.  Anyway, I have lots of concerns but I'll never know for sure until I go and talk to this doctor.  I'm just wondering if anyone else is using these "mood changing" drugs with their Doodles.  I'd love to have some first hand feedback.

[Christine & Camus]

Jane, I had a dog that suffered from a breakdown. This may sound strange, however I tried many of the psychotropic medications for her and F is right - start low, very low, and go slow.  Roxanne's problem was fear without aggression and the primary side effect of the medication was drowsiness.  The pet psychologist (who I stopped consulting) suggested putting her down, she was only about 3 years old and I absolutely refused. She was never what one would call a normal dog, but she did well enough for another 7 years.  I also have an e-collar for Camus that I use on the vibrate mode. Using the collar has been nothing short of  a miracle!  I do not like the fenced dog parks so I take him to a park that technically does not allow off-leash, but he started chasing anything that moved fast, joggers, kids on bikes and skate boards, etc. He had a great recall until the new behavior of chasing began.  I trained him myself for two weeks before we went back to the park. His recall is now 100% and I rarely need to use the vibrate function, however he always wears the collar when off leash in open areas.  IMO what he needed was something that brought his attention back to me so he was able to respond to the command.  He absolutely hates the vibrate, but I used it on myself so I know it does not hurt. Also, the newer antidepressants are much better than the drugs available for Roxanne (about 25 years ago), I hope you find one that works well for Murphy.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Thanks Christine.   Great to know that you've had such good results with Camus using the e collar.  I've waited long enough....it's time.

[Christine & Camus]

Jane, I forgot to mention that there are some very good training videos by Dogtra, Tri Tronics, and others on You tube.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

You know I did, and you know I felt it was the best ( but difficult) choice we ever made. We should have done it sooner. Unless someone lives with this situation in the home, it is impossible to explain. I have so much to say here, but dare not.
My only advice, I have full confidence in the medication and would never hesitate to do it again if the situation called for it.

[Christine & Camus]

Same for me!

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Jane, I am so sorry to read this about Murphy. I can certainly understand how scared Tim must have been. It sounds like you have a good plan for Murphy and I hope at some point this process gets easier for you. I am sending hugs your way, too. We also have been to e-collar training for Fudge after her escapes from the yard and the jump off the boat. I know that is a hard decision and I fought it for a very long time, but I was more afraid of losing Fudge or her getting seriously hurt. As for the drugs, I say go for it. It cannot hurt to try at this point and you have certainly exhausted all other possibilities.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Thanks, Laurie.  How did Fudge respond to the e collar training?  I also really want to be able to let Murphy really run off some of his energy without being afraid that I will lose him.

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Jane, As usual, we have not been as diligent as you in the training department :) She responded very well at training.  The trainer we used has 8 rescue dogs and swears by the e-collar. The last class Vern and I attended there were at least 5 happy people that trained with the e-collar. Personally, I did not want to go that route at all and fought it and am still fighting it a little, but after Fudge jumped off the boat and disappeared, my husband, who says very little regarding dog training, said we had to try something or we were going to lose her. The trainer said Fudge is exactly the right dog for this kind of training. We really just want to use it while on the boat, so she can swim free, but not take off. It is always a work in progress with us, but we will get there.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

P. S.
We used Clomipramine (sp), and the chief side effect was thirst. I don't know what meds you would be prescribed, but there were not many negative effects with that med. They did warn, as F. Said, slow on and slow off. I that situation, headaches were the primary problem as I understood it.
Write me anytime you need.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Thanks so much, Joanne.  Did they ever talk to you about tryptophan?  I've been reading that it's a good drug to start with since it's natural.  I really am hoping Murphy can be calmer but not lethargic....is that what you experienced?

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Starlit was more lethargic before the medication than while on the medication. She actually took time out her day to play some later on. Enjoy life, instead of fighting with everything in her mind. She awoke easily, she rested better, but no, she was not lethargic.
Her medication has been used since the 60s on canines. Plenty of research and info out there on this medication.
Tryptophan, we had not been suggested for her and we never used it.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I seriuosly doubt tryptophane will have much if any effect other than sedation.