What is a "Cockapoo"??

[Nancy Sunderland]

I am very confused; would someone please tell me why cockapoos are in the ALD pedigrees? I thought that was a totally different cross/hybrid. If someone says they breed "pure" ALD, how can a cockapoo be in the mix? (I'm just curious)

[Adria, Dan, and Sookie]

So why doesn't somebody just do a DNA analysis to trace the breed contributions in the ALD lines? This can be done quite easily now and I think would be of considerable interest to ALD breeders -- and it doesn't rely on self-reporting by the original breeders.. It's pretty fascinating stuff.

[Adina P]

DNA samples aren't reliable. The technology isn't quite there to make it trustworthy. I certainly wouldn't place a confident bet on the outcome. And each line might have a different mix so it would take a while even IF the DNA testing was considered reliable and accurate.

[Adria, Dan, and Sookie]

Interesting. As a geneticist, I disagree. :)

[Adina P]

Please tell me more! The last I heard from someone in a related field the technology was just not there (a year ago at the most) and that none of the databases had quite enough information and that breed ID was based on the lumping of dogs into groups that were not necessarily related based on breed type (terriers, etc).

But if you have more current info I would LOVE to learn what you know =)

[Adria, Dan, and Sookie]

Well, it's not my particular specialty at all, but I've heard a couple of talks by and read the work of Elaine Ostrander, who is a BRILLIANT dog geneticist at the National Institute of Health. She is one of my scientific idols. :) I know the grouping data of which you speak. You can even read the original article here: http://genome.cshlp.org/content/17/11/1562.full . It may be a bit rough to slog through but it's really fascinating stuff.

I am absolutely positive that the technology is there to compare DNA microsatellite markers between suspect breeds and come up with a percentage of certainty of contribution. Whether or not anyone is actually making this available to the public as a commercial enterprise, I don't know.

[Noble Vestal Labradoodles]

I agree with Adina. Breeders have and are working with labs but even the labs and the geneticists behind the tests will admit that they are not in a place yet to be 100%.

Even testing for humans is not 100% and human testing is much more advanced and studied on a wider scale.

[Noble Vestal Labradoodles]

while DNA testing is available from about 3 or 4 different labs they are not 100% acurate. For example a Florida breeder DNA tested her dogs and one of her mini's came back with Husky in it. Well we know that no Husky was used in this dog's line. Some old Poodle lines will test positive for Schnauzer as well.

Some labs can only identify American lines of specific breeds meaning that if lines never introduced in the US were used in the creation they can not be identified.

DNA is helpful in some situations. For example if a breeder is able to trace the pedigree back to a specific kennel breeding only a single pure breed but the documentation of the pedigree is not complete then DNA could be used to verify the validity of the pedigree.

When dealing with some lines that are very old the base breeds become lost meaning they are too far back to identify clearly.

[Adria, Dan, and Sookie]

Interesting. So really, they just need to collect more samples. They're trying really hard to do this at the NHGRI:
http://research.nhgri.nih.gov/dog_genome/info_for_dog_owners/index....

http://research.nhgri.nih.gov/dog_genome/info_for_dog_owners/list.s...

As a side note, and this may not make me popular with the breeders on this board, but I personally, as a scientist, would tend to trust DNA analysis over a self-reported pedigree. IF I was confident in the lab, that is, and it sounds like it will be a few more years before anyone will consider them to be a reliable resource.

[Noble Vestal Labradoodles]

I agree with you that if there were a test that was 100% accurate that I would trust the test over the pedigree.

I cant wait to read some of the links you have posted, they appear interesting.

Most breeders would not be in objection to DNA testing. Maybe only the founders who use the "proprietariness" (if that were a word) to market their lines would object. Again I do not fault them for not disclosing the breeds they used.

[Nancy Sunderland]

Thank you everyone for the lively discussion and information. I thought the "ALD" was ONLY Lab & Poodle, I had no idea there were legitimately 5-10 other breeds used in the development of the Australian Labradoodle. Very interesting!!