Need Help with Kiley

[Adrianne Matzkin]

Scott Morton 6 hours ago

Scott added this as a comment and not a discussion so I started one for him. Hope you don't mind Scott.

Hi All,

I spend some time reading alot of the post, but I don't tend to leave alot of comments.  However, I'm hoping I can get some help.  Our female ALD (Kiley) who now just shy of 1Yr old has a bad habit of chasing and nipping at our kids and my wife.  Usually it's right when you walk away from her and she comes chasing your butt and nipping. then if you confront her she backs off, but trys to come again as soon as you turn away.  It occasionally will do this with me, but not nearly as much.  Her eyes dialate and her tail is wagging fast also (barking also).  I'm not sure if she is playing rough, establishing her dominance or just plain crazy.  It's weird also cause if it's just you and the dog, she is awesome!  Enter one of my 3 kids (11, 8 and 4) or wife and she can be crazy.  Usually it comes out of nowhere also.  My wife is about fed up; says she hates the dog....  We do try to say ouch, or lay her on her side till she calms down (picture ceasar..lol).  We will hold her mouth shut and pretend bite with our fingers in her chest, but usually one of those tactics only works with me.  Any ideas?  is this normal?  Will it pass?  Anyone have similar experiences?  BTW she was well socialized, did obedience classes and is well trained.  Recall sucks, but everything else is pretty good.

Help?

[Adrianne Matzkin]

Comment by Ricki and Tara (doodle) 1 hour ago

Scott, this is a very common problem with dogs in general because it is what puppies "do". Watch them play with each other sometime. I suspect that the energy of the children is probably playing a role in amping up Kiley's energy. Tara was a terrible nipper and I tried MANY things to get her to stop but until she got consequences for her action nothing helped (all those things you have done and the books tell you to do failed for us). You won't find this in the books but I offered her my hand and if she bit I sprayed Bitter Apple on it which she hates and offered it to her again. Soon she learned that people didn't taste so good. I didn't have children in the house hold so you have a different dynamic then I did. That's just one idea and different things work with different doodles. Some people make a loud noise with coins in a can or something like that to scare them. Some squirt with water. These usually occur after the other things have failed.

I urge you to post this question in the Puppy Madness Group and also the Training, Experience, Challenges group. Also try searching those groups for previous discussions on this issue. You are not alone in this and it can be stopped.

Comment by Anthony Leong 6 hours ago

My 10 weeks old ALD female loves to nip at my fingers.  I always say NO!! Stop!!

Comment by Lynda Kamrath 6 hours ago

Scott, I think ALDs are like that.  Yes, it seems to be normal and it does pass.  My ALD nipped at both my mother and FIL (both in their 90s) and brought blood to their hands.  He also has nipped my husband several times.  I just raise my hands and say "ahhh, ahhh, ahhh" and he doesn't nip me (thank goodness).  He loves to dance with me and jumps up to "have a dance".  Now that he is 2 1/2, there isn't any more nipping, but it was bad when he was a youngster.  They also are very hyper and need lots of exercise.

Comment by Amy, Cubbie & Ollie 6 hours ago

Hi Scott, post this in a discussion above because the comments section doesn't work well for posting responses and isn't searchable. 

 

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Scott, this is a very common problem with dogs in general because it is what puppies "do". Watch them play with each other sometime. I suspect that the energy of the children is probably playing a role in amping up Kiley's energy. Tara was a terrible nipper and I tried MANY things to get her to stop but until she got consequences for her action nothing helped (all those things you have done and the books tell you to do failed for us). You won't find this in the books but I offered her my hand and if she bit I sprayed Bitter Apple on it which she hates and offered it to her again. Soon she learned that people didn't taste so good. I didn't have children in the house hold so you have a different dynamic then I did. That's just one idea and different things work with different doodles. Some people make a loud noise with coins in a can or something like that to scare them. Some squirt with water. These usually occur after the other things have failed.

I urge you to post this question in the Puppy Madness Group and also the Training, Experience, Challenges group. Also try searching those groups for previous discussions on this issue. You are not alone in this and it can be stopped.

[Anthony Leong]

My 10 weeks old ALD female loves to nip at my fingers.  I always say NO!! Stop!!

[Lynda Kamrath]

Scott, I think ALDs are like that.  Yes, it seems to be normal and it does pass.  My ALD nipped at both my mother and FIL (both in their 90s) and brought blood to their hands.  He also has nipped my husband several times.  I just raise my hands and say "ahhh, ahhh, ahhh" and he doesn't nip me (thank goodness).  He loves to dance with me and jumps up to "have a dance".  Now that he is 2 1/2, there isn't any more nipping, but it was bad when he was a youngster.  They also are very hyper and need lots of exercise.

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

Hi Scott, post this in a discussion above because the comments section doesn't work well for posting responses and isn't searchable. 

 

[Adrianne Matzkin]

Hi Scott,

It's been decades since my kids were little but I know they remember my rule where our Beardie Collie, Maggie, was concerned. BCs are herding dogs - that is what they were bred for and nothing can break them of that inherited trait. So I made a rule and if they were to break it they had consequences to face. There is no running in the yard with Maggie if I was not outside. PERIOD! She would chase them, try and herd them which she did by nipping ankles. They only forgot the rule once - they remember spending the day in their rooms after their friends Mom picked them all up. 

Join the Puppy Madness Group - you will lots of advice and know that you are not alone. Ricki used Bitter Apple, you can also put a FEW drops of plain vinegar on whatever part of you she likes to nip.

She IS playing - she is getting your attention which is what she wants. Like kids, she doesn't care if it is positive or negative attention. 

Lying her on her side holding her down is old school training - not positive training (this is what was taught 30 years ago with my Maggie). It must frustrate her not being able to get up and she works herself up and she still if full of energy.

How much exercise is she getting everyday?  Sounds like not enough. 

You need to get a positive trainer to work with Kiley and the entire family - including the kids. They have to learn the correct way to play with Kiley or this will never get better.

Good luck!!!!

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

I would like to second Adrianne's suggestion about working with a trainer who can come to your home and evaluate the situation and Kiley's interaction with your kids. It is important to find a good one though so ask for references from their experience in similar situations.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I agree with everyone's input.  You say that your dog has been obedience trained and that she's "well trained" except for recall.  If she's chasing your family and nipping at them she really isn't "well trained".  She needs to learn that behavior isn't acceptable.  I think putting her on her side to "submit her" and "biting" her with a touch correction is probably not the best approach....you may see Cesar do it on television, but it's in a whole different context to what you're talking about here...and it's done calmly.  I suspect you've getting your Doodle even more excited.  You need to start with the kids and give them a strategy for first how to avoid the situation (no excited running around the dog) and then what to do when it starts.  Someone in authority needs to calmly correct (verbally) and then put the dog either in a time out to calm down or in a down/stay (which she should know if she's been trained).  Is this your first dog?  I really think you're going to need to find a good trainer who is willing to come to your home to help you with this situation.  If the dog is almost a year, it's critical that you gain some control now before these behaviors become real habits that are difficult to address.  You might want to join Puppy Madness or the Training Group.

[kristine & Auggie]

We have an 11 week old adl and I noticed with the grandkids here the energy level just ramps up.  Kids have a different energy and your dog will also sense your wife's frustration.  Try doing several pack walks a day to bond the group.  I also would be very cautious of games that involve running, chasing or tug of war. 

The bitter apple is also working for us. Maybe go back to the reward system, reward her when she stops  the nipping and backs off, reward her for listening and obeying.  She is still  a puppy so it isn't too late but the whole family has to be on the same page.  Remember, calm assertive energy.  Good luck

[Nicky, Riley & Boris]

Sounds like this puppy is thinking the children are for play and of course this is the way dogs play.  Kiley thinks this is a game .  If you use a crate then the second this happens, say no and take her to the crate for time out. I find here when mine are giddy and are  rough housing too much that five minutes time out is all that is needed.  A one year old needs lots of exercise.  A tired dog is a good dog lol  I suggest that you need a trainer who works with positive reinforcement methods to come to your home and to teach not only your puppy but your children too how to re-direct this behavior.  It is this sort of thing that ends up with lovely dogs ending up being re-homed and the fact that you have come here for help is really good. Please  re post this  in the Puppy Madness group (it's not called Puppy madness for nothing lol) where you will get lots of great advice.