Chapter TWO--Positive and Negative Reinforcement: Let's Discuss!

[Adina P]

Chapter Two discusses the clicker training philosophy on positive reinforcement-only focused training vs. training that uses corrections.

Anyone have any experiences they'd like to share? Please share your thoughts on this chapter here.

On a side note, while we may agree or disagree on the value/use of corrections, since this group's members are striving to learn this particular method we are studying, any solutions we come up with to help each other will need to be positive/clicker based.

[Denise, Winnie, and AngelAbby]

I just read through chapter 2 - made tons of sense to me - and I too have the guilt complex now for EVERY dog I have ever owned and tried to train!! Man - what an eye opener! Things have been a little hectic here over the holiday - and then I have been sick with my spring cold... so training has been put on hold for the last week. But we will be back on track here soon. This is such a great program...

[Nancy Greenberg]

Just did a little session on backchaining with Duffy. He seemed to get it right away. He'd go to the mousepad, I'd ask him to sit and he did, C&T! We repeated about 8-10 times. I will try to wait a while before I ask him to sit next time after touching the mousepad. My small success....Duffy loves to grab the throw pillows off the couch and chairs. We usually ask him to drop it, which he does, but when we approach to pick it up, he grabs it again and runs! Well, today I tried the clicker approach....he grabs pillow, I say drop it, he drops, I click, I pick up pillow and give him his reward...an icecube...pillow put up out of reach. Small victory for the trainer! yay!
As to my feelings about positive reinforcement over negative, I'm all for it! I taught school for 13 years - 6th through 9th grade - my motto was to always praise the good stuff, don't give the trouble maker any attention in front of the class because it's just what he/she's trying to get. Seemed to work for me! Now Duffy gets the same treatment! Makes for much happier relationship.

[Bette & Obie]

Obie & I are getting a late start but are now trying to catch up. We were introduced to clicker training a few months ago but until reading "Clicker Training" it wasn't clear the purpose of targeting, & the importance of using only positive reinforcement. Obie is 9 months old & does a lot of things right but he is very exuberant & still jumps up on guests plus barks more than we think is necessary. The other morning, he jumped on the bed right on top of my husband. Mike woke up with such a start that I'm sure that reinforced Obie's action. We told him "off" & "down" & he just snuggled further into the nice soft bed. I had to pull him off the bed which he found so much fun that he jumped up there again! At that point we took him off the bed again & I took him out of the room. Wasn't sure if we should have C/T when he was on the floor because we were the ones that put him there. Normally, I would have sternly told him "NO" but didn't want to give him negative reinforcement. Would appreciate any ideas on how we should have handled that situation.

[Adina P]

The best solution is to work hard on conditioning him to respond quickly to "off" (don't use "down" because "down" means lie down usually if you have taught him that). So outside the heat of the moment...do lots of repetitions of "off" through the day. Of course for 'off' to work he has to be ON something. Do you have a chair or foot stool you can use for practice? Or something outside he can climb on safely and jump off safely?

I'm still not completely clear on the 'best' clicker answer to those situations. I would personally just do as you did and remove him from the bed and perhaps even crate him.

As to jumping on guests...you have to do what you can to prevent that except when your guests are ready to help with training:

1) Keep a leash on him and step on the leash so he can't jump UP...

And then try to plan some training parties where you teach your guests how to respond to him while he's crated and then let him out for some practice.

#1 Teach your guests to NOT reward him for jumping by giving him ANY attention. NO touching, NO words, NO eye contact, NO screaming, NOTHING.

#2 Teach your guests to only look at him and greet him if he is sitting or standing politely. THE SECOND he begins to jump they need to turn around and walk away or start looking at the sky with their arms folded.

#3 Meanwhile you can be ready with the clicker and treats and click/treat for polite greetings.

I've heard some people will leash the dog and then put the leash loop around a doorknob on the other side of the door and close the door. So then the dog is leashed and the leash secure on the other side of the closed door. Then have people come up to puppy and if his feet leave the ground they back up or go away. If puppy's feet stay on the ground then they can treat puppy or pet him.

Another thing is in the meantime keep practicing "sit" and "stay" and with lots of practice you will be able to tell him to "sit" "stay" and he will do it while people come over. BUT this will take time and lots of repetitions as with any other training...perfect practice makes excellence!

[Bette & Obie]

Thanks Adina for the great advice. We have a soft hassock (Obie barely fits on) but he willingly jumped on it & I C/T then told him "off" & C/T with lots of praise when he jumped down. He did this about a dozen times then I asked Mike to come see. Even with the slight distraction from his favorite person, Obie performed perfectly! We will do this several more times today & put it in our small repertoire of "good" behaviors. Thanks also for explaining the four quadrants of behavior. Your explanation really helped clarify things for me.

[Adina P]

I want to clarify some terms. In this book, at least so far, the terms "positive reinforcement" and "negative reinforcement" are used casually. However, technically speaking they are not used in the manner that behaviorists would use them. Let me explain.

Technically, in behaviorism there are TWO types of reinforcement and TWO types of punishment. And "positive" and "negative" have nothing to do with good or bad. They have to do with either "application" or "removal" of something. When you think positive/negative think of addition vs. subtraction.

Reinforcement has to do with making a behavior stronger and making it more likely a dog will REPEAT it.
Punishment has to do with reducing the likelihood a dog will repeat a behavior.

So just in case you run into these terms elsewhere here are the four parts:

1) Positive reinforcement==the application of a reward to encourage the dog to repeat a behavior. Treats, praise, play time can all be positive reinforcers. Finding steak on the kitchen counter is also a positive reinforcer to make the dog try counter surfing again. Getting attention is also a positive reinforcer to make a dog continue jumping on people. So something to keep in mind is that sometimes the dog gets 'reinforced' positively for his/her behavior even when you didn't mean for it to happen. It also means that sometimes the best thing to do to help control a behavior is to get rid of the reinforcement so the dog is not accidentally rewarded. Finally, if the dog doesn't find something reinforcing, it's NOT. So if a dog doesn't like a treat very much...it won't work for that treat. This is the primary reinforcement used by positive clicker trainers often abbreviated R+

2) Negative reinforcement==the removal of something the dog does NOT like to encourage the dog to repeat a behavior. The best example I can give is with electronic collar training. One way a dog is trained to 'come' on command with an e-collar is when the trainer says "come" the dog gets the e-collar vibration/shock UNTIL he comes. So because the dog coming when called turns OFF (removes) the thing the dog finds unpleasant...then coming when called is reinforced and the dog will come more reliably next time. This is NOT used by 'positive clicker trainers' and is abbreviated R-

3) Positive Punishment==this is the application of something the dog does NOT like to discourage the dog from a behavior. So it can be a squirt from a squirt bottle for jumping. It can be a tug on a choke chain for not heeling. It can be anything undesirable you apply on the dog as consequence for behavior you don't like. *This is NOT used by positive clicker trainers and is abbreviated P+

4) Negative Punishment==the removal of something the dog LIKES to discourage a behavior. So for example...you ask for "Sit" and your dog jumps...you turn around and leave him and remove your attention. That would be negative punishment. This is frequently used by positive trainers and is abbreviated P-

Hope that clarifies the four quadrants of behavior change stuff...