Does anyone elses Doodles fight??

[Stella]

We have two male labradoodles, both were neutered at five months old.  Hartley, our older F1 is the larger of the two (80lb) almost three years old and we had him for a year and a quarter before we added the second.  Chase, our second is a multigen, he is smaller at 50lb and is almost two years old.  They have both been to socialisation and obediance classes.

 

Hartley is very sociable, loves to meet new people, meet new dogs, and has played with many other dogs without problem. 

 

Chase from the day we got him has been 'fiesty', he used to pee on Hartleys bed, takes toys from him, and generally pushes him around.  At home, Chase is cheeky, pushy, and bullies Hartley.  But, when we go out he is fearful of new people, new dogs, pilons, balloons,  his own reflection, and has fear based aggression towards other dogs.  (He was attacked at nine months old at a dog park, which seemed to began his issues with other dogs)

 

Our two dogs have 'tolerated' each other since we bought Chase home.  They sleep on seperate beds, do not share each others space well, and it took us months before we could get them to travel in the car together without fighting.  We kept thinking that as they got older they would work out who was who in the doggy pecking order and that they would get over this stage of fighting.  But, lately things are escalating, they are fighting more often (in the car, the garden and in the house) and Hartley is getting hurt - scratches on his face, punctures on his leg, and today his leg was actually cut open. 

 

I know we need to get a trainer to help. We moved to a new home earlier in this year and are too far away to go to our old trainer, who we loved.  We now live in a rural area with no local dog training options.  I feel that it isn't fair to Hartley to keep being bullied and beaten up on.  I am so frustrated that after being together for almost a year and a half, they are still fighting.

 

Any advice, ideas, suggestions, morale support would be very welcome.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I am so sorry. My doodles get along just fine - our smaller one is dominant and if there is any issue over a toy, one growl from Ned and Clancy cedes. Clancy and our Springer had lots of issues when we first got Clancy last March and it was for bottom of the rung! Clancy was an adult though and we feel that was probably the problem. They have settled it for the most part except over one specific nylabone and occasionally they will do lots of warning growling. Oddly they snuggle together when riding in the car. Clancy has also gotten into it with my DIL's male (adult neuter) whippet. They only tolerate each other and I would NEVER leave them alone together because when they have argued, Clancy cut the whippet with his teeth or claws. So this is where you are with your two except they live together all of the time. I will be watching others' posts to see their suggestions. My only suggestion is to call your old trainer. Perhaps you can do some phone consulting with him or her.

[2SCdoodles]

I have two doodles. They are half brothers with a 6 months difference in age. They are now 2 1/2 and 3 years old. They do sometimes have fights, but they do love each other and grieve when they are apart for things like vet visits, etc.

The really interesting thing is that they are totally non-aggressive when it comes to kids and people, but they can turn on each other like jackals on the rare occasion,

They seemed to argue much more when younger. Capp the oldest has drawn blood- though likely not intentionally. He bit his brother on the nose and it bled a lot. Usually, their arguments begin over just playing around that gets too rough. They will sometimes fight over a bone, so I am careful to make sure I have two or none and that they are supervised with the bones. I also feed them about five feet a part in distance.

They do thieve from each other, and rarely do they sleep together, but they do love each other fiercely. It is odd, but it is almost the same behavior you see in human families- I can tease you and torment you, but no one else had better do it.

It does sound from your writings above that you will need help from a trainer. I wish you the best of luck and hope things get better.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I also have two male Doodles. I haven't seen an actual "fight" between the two of them, but there is a lot of "bullying". The "10 month old puppy" is about 40 lbs heavier than is brother (who is a mini), and obviously he is the bully. He will literally "stalk" his brother (he looks like a cat getting ready to pounce), and then he'll "leap" into action. A couple of times recently he's had Guinness by the back of the neck and was actually trying to pick him...I put a very quick stop to that. I also now correct him when he's taking toys away from his brother, and he's beginning to get the idea that I'm just not going to tolerate it. When he tries to do it, Guinness will growl, but Murphy (the big guy) doesn't even seem to care about that any more. He'll just go ahead and take it, and then Guinness will just walk away. Unfortunately, Guinness spends a lot of time hiding (under chairs or the bed) just to get away from Murph. That really makes Murphy mad, and he'll just stand there and bark at him. I have tried from the beginning to establish Guinness as the Alpha...he gets his meals and treats first, he goes through the door first, he's allowed up on the bed first. That doesn't seem to have worked. The interesting thing is that they great along great in the car. They even snuggle together. Go figure? I initially took the attitude of letting the figure things out, and I still do most of the time. Now though if I see something that is actually unfair or unacceptable behavior, I do intervene. I would definitely talk to your old trainer by phone to see if you can get some advice. What are you doing now when you see them actually fighting?

[Lynda Kamrath]

I also have two male doodles - one four years old and the other a puppy (about 5 months). The puppy does the teasing and also hides under anything Groucho cannot get under. Groucho sometimes get frustrated with the puppy and sets limits. It sounds like he might be fighting, but he is just letting Harpo know that he has stepped over the line. However, I don't think you can establish Alpha in a dog's society. They will fall into their roles and may listen to you, but it is their rules. Hopefully nobody gets hurt.

[Stella]

We have been trying to leave them to work it out for themselves and only intervening if things get too much. They play together outside and wrestle without it escalating into anything most of the time. When they have fought is have been over toys, personal space, and sometimes we just don't know. Yesterday we had been outside and I was taking my shoes off with my back turned, so I have no idea what started it. The scary thing is that there is no warning - no growling - they just get into it.