Dog Fight

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

I tried to do a search to see if this issue had already been discussed and I didn't find exactly what I was looking for.  I apologize if i missed it and this is a duplicate discussion but I could really use some advice/insight.

3 weeks ago we rescued a (almost 2 year old) male mini australian labradoodle and already have a 2.5 year old male mini doodle.  The first week or so they just ignored each other but over the last 2 weeks they have been interacting more but it seems like Ollie (the new guy) is always in Cubbie's face.  He will run up to him and nip at his ears or mouth.  Cubbie doesn't like it and walks away.  Ollie has been trying to steal everything that Cubbie has (food, toys, Cubbie's bed, Cubbie's favorite spot on the couch).  Ollie will usually wait until Cubbie walks away from whatever it is and then run over and claim it.

 

Last week the two dogs were playing tug with a toy (I was so excited to see them playing together and thought we were finally making progress).  Then all of a sudden the playing turned into something scary.  There was growling, barking, snarling, and they were a tangled mess of dogs.  I was able to separate them and then as soon as I did Ollie went up to Cubbie and licked his face like it was some sort of apology.  I thought that it was a one time thing and chalked it up to them figuring each other out.

 

Last night I had both dogs out in the backyard while my parents were over and I was playing fetch with them.  I had 2 balls outside, but of course they both wanted the same one.  All was fine for a little while and both were running around the yard together and would race to be the first one to get the ball and it seemed like they were fine.  Then all of a sudden, with NO warning, they were on each other and fighting.  All I could see what a mess of fur and teeth and the sounds were terrible.  I yelled at them but they didn't notice.  I threw my flipflops at them (horrible I know, but they were soft flipflops and I was starting to panic).  I finally just tried to grab a collar and pull them apart.  I had to literally pry them off of each other and they just kept trying to keep going.  My mom eventually took Cubbie from me (after she stopped having a heart attack) and we were able to pull them further apart.  Both dogs just sat there staring at each other panting.  After a few minutes I let them go thinking that everything would be ok and they immediately went back at each other.  Once again I had to pull them apart and got nipped on my hand (didn't break the skin, but it was enough to freak me out).  The two of them really scared me.  I thought they were going to kill each other.  I ended up having to take Cubbie to the emergency vet because the white part of one of his eyes was blood red.  Luckily they said he was just bruised and no real damage had been done to the eye and that he would probably just be uncomfortable for the next few days.  I feel really bad that I brought another dog into our home and now Cubbie is getting hurt.  I know that it could have just as easily have been Ollie that got hurt, and I would still be really upset, but it is just hard to see either dog get hurt (plus my husband wasn't thrilled about the emergency vet fee!)

 

I would really appreciate some help.  I would have loved for them to be able to play outside together, but at this point I would just like to be able to have the 2 of them outside together without worrying that one of them will end up dead.

 

 

 

[Jersey, Jasmine, Jypsy and Diane]

My doodles don't fight, but I would suggest you get a hold of a good dog behavior specialist ASAP and get to the bottom of the problem, before you end up with a bigger vet bill. I had this problem many years ago with German shorthaired pointers and ended up putting the aggressive dog down, as it kept going after my other two younger shorthairs. I wish I had known then to get a hold of a behavior specialist, to solve the problem. It broken my heart to I put the dog down. I tried for 18 months to keep them seperated, but she managed to to attack again. The first time the vet bill cost me over $6,000.00 and that was a LONG time ago. I shudder to think what I would have paid now. My doods have insurance policies now. Good luck. I know it's hard to watch them fight and always be waiting for it to happen.

[Sally loves Maple & Lucky]

Sounds familiar. Long before the Doodles, we adopted a 3 y/o Australian Kelpie and at first all was fine between her and my 5 y/o Shepard/Corgi mix. After a month or so there started a power struggle. Fights, vet visits, then separating the dogs altogether. The new dog was trying to steal the Alpha role from the 5 y/o. The older dog took the brunt with her dull teeth. We ended it by giving the Kelpie to another family as their only dog. The 5 y/o went on to have good home relationships with other cats and a young male dog after that.

Sounds like you have an aggressive challenger on your hands - both dogs are used to being the Alpha and are trying to reestablish their "rights" in this new relationship.

BTW, you should NEVER put your hand in the middle of a dog fight. You may very well loose a finger or the use of your hand.Turn the high pressure hose on them next time.

Sorry, I have no real harmonious solution but time will tell if they sort it out. I can only speak from my experience and the advise our Vet gave us. My fear is they will fight until one caves the position to the other and that could be ugly.

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

The logical, rational part of my brain totally knows not to reach down to grab them, but the emotional part of me just freaked out when I couldn't get them to stop.  Once I had gotten them separated I mentally scolded myself and realized how stupid I had been for putting my hands down there but it was just instinct.  :(

 

This weekend I am going to try and talk to one of the dog trainers that we have used in the past.  He has a bunch of dogs, many of them rescues, and they all get along just fine.  Hopefully he can help us.

[Stella]

I have posted a few discussions on this topic because my two doods fight.  We had a really bad run about six months ago when they were fighting all the time and we ended up with a $500 vet bill for stitches on one of our dogs.  Our younger dog is very cheeky and winds our other dog up, the older dog corrects him, the younger dog doesn't take it and they end up fighting.  We thought of rehoming the younger dog at one point when it wa really bad, but my husband loves that dog!  We have perservered and worked really hard at establishing ourselves as leaders, quickly correcting the younger dog when he is being annoying so that the older dog doesn't feel he has to.  We also made strict housee rules to enforce the behaviour of both dogs and re-establish the older dogs position.  We go through doors first, then the older dog, then the younger.  The older dog eats his whole meal first whle the younger one waits in front on his own bowl, he doesn't get to eat until the older dog has completely finished, we always greet the older dog first.  It has taken time, patience, and a lot of stress but things are getting better.  We are always watching, and have to jump on things immediately before they escalate but I am hopeful that our two dogs will learn to live with each other.

As your two are so new to each other, I would not have them together unsupervised.  They do need to work out their position and it may be that the new dog is more dominant and will take over.  Definitely consult a behaviourist for some advise.  .... and don't feel bad for throwiing your shoe!!  My two doods are 80lb and 50lb so I too have resorted to throwing things to separate them, they are too strong for me to pull apart!

[Susan, Zeke. Lily & Jasper]

We have done a similar thing with our 3 doods.  They have never fought seriously but the older male didn't like the younger one when he first came to live with us. In between these 2 guys is a rescue female who is a total party girl, the more the merrier with her.  On the occasions that dood #1 tried to dominate dood#3 I have stepped in to stop the interaction and sent them to their crates.  I'm the alpha in all situations.  It works better for us if all 3 are treated the same.  I switch it up with in and out the door with me always first and who I say is next.  Same with feeding, they all eat at the same time but I switch up the order of who gets their bowl first.  They all seem to have learned that everyone will get a turn at things such as treats, baths and they even line up for their flea & tick meds.  I think being strong & consistant in not tolerating fighting will eventually win out.  Hope it happens soon for you Amy!

[Lynette Main]

S far we've been very lucky.None of the three have ever gotten into a fight. We were at the dog park once and a great dane went after Shea and he went into submission on his back with his legs up.Then he was so scared he came over to me and sat there for about half an hour. Shea is almost as large a the other dog and there could have really been a bad fight,but thats a doodle...Fun and easy going...

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

I talked to my trainer last Tuesday and he told me to take away all of their toys for a while (he said that I would know when to give them back).  He said that if they have nothing else to do they won't have anything to fight over and that they would be so bored they would play together.  We took everything away and just today gave them only their bones back.  Cubbie keeps trying to play with Ollie, but it seems like Ollie doesn't really know how to play (at least not appropriately anyway).  We have been taking them on walks every night that are at least 1 mile or longer so they are still getting exercise and are doing really well walking together. 

 

Cubbie even seems kind of sad when they are separated.  Today I took Ollie to the vet and when we got home Cubbie ran up to him and just jumped around and wouldn't stop smelling him.  Cubbie usually greets me like crazy, but this time I was pretty much invisible, but I'll take that as a good sign.  They will both now stand near each other rather than at opposite sides of the room and we had both of them in the backseat of the car together with no problems.  It looks like we are making some progress, but I just have to remember not to try and force it or rush it.  Ollie starts his obedience class next week, so we hope to see some improvements there too.

 

thanks for the help everyone.  It is great to have a place to turn to when things with the doods get rough!

[Sally loves Maple & Lucky]

Amy, so glad attitudes are progressing positively! Stay tough. YOU'RE the boss :)

 

[Lynda Kamrath]

My dogs sometimes fight also, but it usually starts as play fighting and then gets out of hand.  It probably is role dominance and the younger dog needs to learn that he needs to allow the older dog to be in charge.  Dogs will usually work this out on their own, but sometimes one of the dogs get injured in the process.  Hondo, my late labradoodle, was never aggressive and would block other dogs from fighting.  My latest doodle is really hyper and drives the goldendoodle crazy sometimes.  You have to analyze the situation but don't try to separate them when they are fighting.  You might have a hose with a squirter set up in the area where they sometimes fight and douse them with water when it starts up.

[cocoincanada]

What you're describing is the exact thing that happened 2 days after I brought our new 6-month old Labradoodle home about a month ago. The first day, Sunny, our oldest, was growling, barking, didn't want anything to do with the new dog, Diesel. On day 2, they got into it badly for a rope toy. It was ugly. No blood, but it was loud and out of control and I had to step in to stop them before they literally killed each other. For about 3 days, Sunny stole everything Diesel had. The poor dog couldn't chew a toy or treat without Sunny stealing it right out of his mouth. We didn't crate the dogs when we went to work (about 3 days after we got Diesel). A few days went by and things started improving. We figure they probably got into it while we were gone and settled things among themselves. Sunny is still the alpha, but Diesel still tries to dominate. But now Diesel can chew a toy and Sunny just watches him do it, rather than try to steal it from him.

 

We feed them together, and I always tell Sunny to go first while Diesel waits...but Sunny is always looking back and waiting for Diesel before approaching his bowl. He won't let Diesel go first, but for some reason, he seems to like when they eat together.

 

Diesel is now the one stealing everything Sunny has. His bed, his toys, etc. They are still battling it for alpha, but they will figure it out eventually. We are the bosses in the house; it's just a matter of them figuring out who comes next. They still growl at each other occasionally for certain reasons, but I have found them napping nose-to-nose, so I guess they are liking each other enough to share breathing space. I don't even do that with my husband! Haha!

 

It's a really challenging time to bring a new dog into a well established "pack", but if you keep working at it, I'm sure it will get better. We saw a big difference in Diesel once we started obedience. We also take him to daycare (without Sunny) so he can learn how a pack interacts with each other, and get to know different personalities. Our issue is that he is 6 months but was never socialized, so he has a lot of fears and is very uncertain around some dogs when they get in his face.

 

Best of luck!