Rough Play

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Recently when the Doods are outside playing, Murphy will get very rough with Guinness.  We have a small dog park in our complex, and we take the boys there to play fetch if there are no other dogs.  There are lots of untrained and "wacky" dogs here, so I avoid going there unless the park is empty.  Anyway, today was a particularly bad day.  We were playing fetch and they were having a great time.  All of a sudden, Murph decided to "attack" his brother.  He chased him and cornered him, biting his neck and legs (he never broke the skin).  Guinness submitted, but Murph didn't stop.  I had to basically pull Murph off.  I'm at a loss as to how I should be reacting when he does this.  Has anyone else experienced this with multiple Doodles?

[Clifford, Cloud, Jake..and Kim]

Jane,  Every so often when Clifford and Cloud are playing Cloud will get too rough; I go over by them and tell them to stop and when they look at me I make Cloud sit to take a breather.  By making him sit it seems to disengage that part of his brain that is over-excited and playing rough.  (Of course, Cloud is closer to Clifford's size than Murphy is to Guinness.)

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Thanks, Kim.  The problem with Murph is that when he was "attacking" Guinness he was not responding to my commands.  I'm thinking for a while I may have to keep him on a training collar and long line when he's outside with Guinness so I can correct the behavior if it occurs again.  I sort of hate doing that, because this was all about having them free to run and play.  I guess it will have to wait until Murph earns the privilege.

[Clifford, Cloud, Jake..and Kim]

Cloud usually is deaf when playing too - my telling them to stop is usually accompanied by me physically separating the two (not hitting or being violent, just pushing their shoulders apart).  Usually the touch gets their attention enough to move to the next step.  Good luck with Murphy - he's such a good boy he will learn what you want in no time.

[Adina P]

I think a long line is a good idea. Otherwise it's like having Murphy doing MAJOR off leash work that he's not ready for (in terms of responding to commands).  In your park walks it was clear to him that it was working time and so you said it was nearly impossible to get him distracted enough to practice recall.  But during wrestling time he is COMPLETELY distracted (normal during play) and your commands are being ignored but there is no way to enforce them so he learns that he can ignore them during rough play. One possibility is to start practicing recall earlier in the rough play...before it gets truly rough.  Maybe start with the more normal light wrestling and in the middle of that call him and then MAKE him come if he doesn't respond right away.  Praise him for coming...heel him a couple steps and then release him again.  Do that a few times, gradually waiting till later in the wrestling/rough play to call him.  Keep him on his toes so he's more 'ready to listen.'  Just an idea.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I agree Adina.  This "frenzied" play state he got into with Guinness is probably the ultimate off leash distraction.  He's going to have to be on a long line and training collar for a while.  There goes our fun games of fetch with the two of them....at least for now.

[Julie, Boomer, Milo & Casey]

What type of training collar do you use, Jane?

[Julie, Boomer, Milo & Casey]

Jane - I read your posts because you always have great training advice.   What you describe is a situation that I have too and wondered how to "fix" it.   The two will be outside playing (always romping over eachother) and then suddenly, Boomer will get Milo up against the fence and corner him there.   If Milo tries to run toward me or the backdoor, Boomer will block him and corner him back into the fence.   This is about the only time I ever see Milo submit but Boomer does NOT stop.   I have put my arm between them (never a good idea) and have tried to grab a collar and break it up (even tried to pick Milo up when he was smaller...can't do that as easily now) but Boomer is relentless. He is otherwise obedient but when this is happening, I am irrelevant to him.   I never know what triggers this either.  I haven't been able to pin point what the trigger is.   When they are full of energy in the house, we know to let them out separately (which is a bummer and more time consuming) but we've learned that when they are wound-up to NOT let them out together because this rough behavior is bound to happen.  

 

I'm anxious to see if anyone has great advice.   :-)

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Julie, that sounds like the exact same situation.  I'm really thinking that this is just another training issue with Murphy.  When he boards his "crazy train" the only thing that brings him back to reality is training.  I just need to get serious and consider this just another opportunity....and I'm really getting a little sick of all these "opportunities" with Murph.  LOL  Anyway, I'm going to try to set up this scenario again later today...if the weather clears.  I'll have him on a long line so that I can correct him the minute I see him start to escalate with Guinness.  It will probably take a few of these sessions, and I'll let you know how it goes.

[Julie, Boomer, Milo & Casey]

Does Murphy seem annoyed with Guinness when this happens?   Boomer has been very forgiving with Milo (5mo puppy) and patient too.   I've watched the two outside and Milo follows Boomer every where.   I'm sure at times that Boomer has to poo but doesn't because the puppy is following behind.   Made me wonder if he's just so annoyed with the puppy and wants his "alone time" to go poo that he just lashes out at Milo?!     I'm not sure if thats the issue or not since it has happened after the potty time too.   It just seems like Boomer is saying, "enough already..back off" and lets Milo have it!   Keep me posted as I haven't put a long line on Boomer to go outside to potty & play...but I may have to!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Nope, it really didn't seem like he was annoyed and there was no trigger that I was able to detect.  We're playing fetch with multiple tennis balls, throwing them to the dogs while they chase them and bring them back (well sometimes).  Then Murph forgets the tennis ball chasing and decides it's more fun to chase his brother.  Guinness runs for his life, and Murph "herded" him against the fence where poor Guinness was trapped.  At first I thought they were just playing rough, but then when Murph started biting at his neck and legs (growling at the same time) Guinness went on his back in submission.  Murph didn't stop, and that's when I got really concerned, and pulled him off and ended the games.  I really think he just got himself very excited, and that's when he forgets everything he's learned.  With Murphy it seems like EVERYTHING has to be trained.  It's like he can't make "good choices" unless I drill it into him.

[Adina P]

Don't think that way Jane (regarding no more fun and games)...he can JUST as easily play fetch with a long line as he can without. Buy a parachute cord if you want something lighter.