devil dog!

[diane silver]

Emma is really being rambunctious and I'm wondering if I'm doing or not doing what I should. She's nipping at my pants, biting and drawing blood, and just being so crazy! I've tried spraying, holding her mouth closed and growling "NO", and just about everything I can think of to inhibit these behaviors and am just hoping that she'll be able to grasp my corrections very soon (she's 10 weeks old tomorrow). I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed and frustrated right now and welcome your suggestions, comments, support, etc.

[Adina P]

I have to smile because you sound so much like I did when Rosco was young. Seriously... I had fear flashes of me having to return him to my breeder because he too drew blood, tore clothes, left bruises...and the like. I can guarantee you with 99.9% certainty that Emma is not worse =) But when YOU are experiencing it does feel like there is NO WAY anyone else's dog could possibly have been as bad as yours is behaving in that moment. NO WAY. But fortunately, yes others like Rosco WERE that bad.

For feisty little devils like Emma...physically trying to stop her will ONLY get her more excited. That's how it was with Rosco. Back then I could tell him NO in my meanest Darth Vader voice, I could hold his mouth, pinch his cheeks, stick my thumb down the back of his tongue, roll him on his back...ANYTHING physical (or that riled me up) and he'd get worse.

The key in your statement above is "everything I can think of to inhibit these behaviors..." Trying "everything" actually backfires. Remember CALM CONSISTENCY will take you the farthest. But again do NOT expect CALM CONSISTENCY to stop her the first few times.

She will likely continue to do this for a while. So if you can predict when these events occur...keep her crated at those times. If you can't predict then remember the keys:

1) YELP loudly and painfully like she just tore your leg off with shark teeth...you have to be a convincing actress ;-)

2) After yelping then LEAVE the room she's in and shut the door behind you. Wait 15-30 seconds. If you're afraid she'll potty while you're gone then get a baby gate you can step over and still be near. Turn your back toward her and ignore her for that same amount of time before returning.

3) Repeat as necessary or simply put her in her crate the first time if you can't afford to leave her alone for a brief time.

So the steps are: YELP in dire pain-->REMOVE ALL FUN AND ATTENTION for long enough for her to learn that biting makes her whole social world collapse.

You will HAVE to do this over and over and over and over and over and over and OVER and do NOT give into a physical battle.

In the meantime, when she's calm...play with her on the floor, checking her mouth, her ears, her toes...get her used to close-up handling and get ready to YELP if she bites hard. Once she bites softer YELP for any teeth at all.

Adina

[diane silver]

I can't tell you all how encouraging and wonderful your support is to me. It's been a long time (17 years) since I've had a little puppy, so I need all the help I can get! I know that this behavior is normal and that as the weeks go on she'll get better. I will definitely try all your suggestions and again, thank you for all your help.

[Tamara & Giada]

Is he getting enough exercise? At least two brisk walks a day, also take him to field and let him run off leash!

[1knme66wzgv4k]

HANG IN THERE! We also had a devil dog and some days still think we do! It does get better. It's so hard when they are puppies because you haven't really bonded with them, yet. Plus it seems like they don't "get it" no matter what you do! Puddles was a nightmere and was almost re-homed, but has improved dramatically! We love him NOW and can't imagine not having him. My only big advice is consistency, consistency, consistency. Just keep doing the same thing over and over and eventually it will get better! As I'm typing this, I realize I'm wearing one of the many shirts with bite holes in the back from when my Puddles was a rascally puppy. Emma's in a phase and it will pass!

[Adina P]

It really DOES get better. It's incredibly hard to believe...but hang in there. We should all wear our holey clothes some time for a picture thread on doodle damage!

[Mikelyn]

Sam is 8 months old and is still doing this but only to me, not my husband. Our trainer told us it was the energy between us (Sam and me) and we were both high energy and it was like 2 small children battling it out.

I think my biggest problem has been I, too, haven't been consistent with any one method. But when I yell ouch and retreat, he just goes off on his own and seems perfectly content.

My husband who loves him dearly also, was even suggesting that maybe we needed to take him back to the breeder to rehome. Needless to say, it makes me ill to even have to think about that! Our trainer is coming back this Thursday to try to some other things so hopefully it will work out.

I know when they are really young, they do this, but what about 8 months? Is there any chance he will outgrow it? Right now I am just fearful that he will always be a nipper and won't ever consider me alpha.

[Adina P]

Rosco was the same. Nipped me and ONLY me. And he wasn't done with the nipping by 8 months. It was closer to 1 year of age.

Training was what got us out of the whole mess. I would refer you back to the same video that got Rosco trained: David Dikeman's Command Performance It's not easy training...but it works wonders and it accomplishes a level of respect and trust in a dog that will do a lot for your relationship with him.

[Mikelyn]

Thanks, Adina, for the encouragement. I just got nipped again, lol, so realize I have to do something! Sam can be very obedient like sit, down and stay, waiting on his dinner, etc. but I read in Milan's book that a dog can be very well trained as far as these things go but still can not have any respect for his owner and try to be dominant.

By the way, what did you do about the nipping in the meantime while waiting until he outgrew it? I generally have to just put Sam back in his crate. If he stops the nipping, then he starts chewing on anything and everything he can to get my attention. He even chewed a piece out of the kitchen flooring last night while my husband and I were in there!

But I will definitely look into this. Thanks, again.

By the way, I have been trying to exercise him except for the walking (which I know is very important) because it is such a struggle to get his harness or gentle leader on. (a real battle in itself!) So, I throw a ball and frisbee out in the backyard, but after about 5 or 10 minutes, he gets bored and starts looking for sticks to chew on.

[Adina P]

"he can be" obedient is not the same as "he is obedient" -- that doesn't mean he's not on his way there with your daily consistent training...but if you are struggling to get his GL on or harness then he's he's far from done training. You should be able to put him in a sit stay to get the GL over his nose. Also will he hold his sits, stays, etc in the company of fun distractions? At the park? While other dogs are coming by to say hello? Until he's past contention on all these things he's not done. But you CAN get there Mikell. The video I recommend is not treat - based training. It does involve corrections, but the dog is shown clearly what is expected of him along the way and ALWAYS has the choice of how to behave.

[Mikelyn]

Adina, I realize the treats= positive training is not working for us. Of course, I don't want or could not anyway, use any negative reinforcement on Sam but it is clear that we have to get a grip on him before it goes any further.

I have decided (after 6 long agonizing months, lol) that I am not letting him get by with another thing that he shouldn't be doing. If he spends the next 8 months in timeout, then so be it.

I think I will order the videos you suggested but can you give me a synopsis on what techniques are used.

Thanks, Mikell

[Adina P]

Mikell, if you are completely uncomfortable with corrections then you won't use the method in the video.... The video, if you read my review, is a comprehensive WHOLE system. It will be worthless to buy it (tho it is cheap) and only use parts...you will NOT get the results unless you follow it to a tee. I know because I wavered for a while and was nit picky...but got the best results when I followed the method exactly. What you are probably wondering with regard to technique is if it includes positive punishment (which is what I think you meant by negative reinforcement?). In behaviorist speak...yes it does include positive punishment via corrections and a choke chain is one of the key tools. But it works extremely well and if done right...the dog does NOT have to endure endless corrections because he learns fast. All three of my dogs have undergone this program to various levels. NONE of them have shut down or freaked out or had problems. They are each happy, healthy dogs. The ones who've gone through the program the farthest are the best behaved, obedience wise, and most reliable.

The thing is that if you go through it step-by-step, following it to a tee...your dog's level of obedience will be SIGNIFICANTLY better in as little as 2-3 months. More time is needed if you want to work toward off leash reliability. And he won't just be better behaved...he'll have more respect and trust in you. And you are ALWAYS welcome to message me with any questions you have along the way. If you decide to go through with it, you can even call me at any point in your training with the video.

However, all that said, again if you are uncomfortable with corrections that use a choke chain, that's okay--I won't be offended. You must do what you feel confident about because that will get you farther than simply the fact I liked this particular program.

[Mikelyn]

Adina, thank you so much for your reply. It isn't that I am against using a choke chain but when we hired a professional trainer that is what they used and it worked for about a couple of days and then it seemed to make Sam more agressive.

I was concerned that I was not using it properly and that is why I gave up using it. Everything I have read about the choke chain is that it takes someone who really understands how to use it correctly and perfect timing and the right kind of tug is very important and I just wasn't confident enough to continue using it.

We have never gone through what we have with Sam with any of our other dogs and a couple of them could have been considered as dominant.

We love Sam very much and know he loves us but it is so depressing because he just doesn't seem to get it that the nipping and chewing is driving us crazy (not to mention the bruises and bites on our arms).

I am still considering ordering the videos but I need to know that I will be able to use the techniques correctly.

Thanks again for your comments. This is truly a great forum and you are doing an excellent job!

Mikell