discouraged - potty training failure? eensy-weensy bladder syndrome?

[Melissa]

Well let me preface this by saying I'm not a new doodle owner.  I've had dogs for 25+ years.  But I'm starting to doubt we'll get there with housetraining my 5mo puppy.  I'd love some encouragement!  

We got Luna (a.k.a. Looney) at 9-10 weeks.  Started crate training and tethering her to me as well as potty on command outside.  She knew "hurry up" within a week and always goes straight to her potty spot when first going outside to go.  I always praise quietly as she will stop mid-stream if interrupted.  I am enthusiastic when she finishes.  I do forget to try treats but still she has no problem with going outside.

 My problem is that she has zero qualms about going inside.  None.  She has no interest in the potty bells.  (My 2yo doodle rings the bells to go.)  She is a double or triple pee-er outside and I did have her urine checked recently and it was clean.  I try to keep her contained but she will whine and go frequently indoors too.  Not so much in the crate any more but while tethered yes, and at least daily when she has a few moments of freedom.

Luna always seems ravenous for water.  She also loves to play in it, but she will wake me at night whining and I'll think she needs to go out and she'll race instead for the water bowl.  I don't limit water; she just drinks a ton.  Consequently she pees all. the. time.  Now I still take her out every 30 minutes or so during the day unless she's sleeping.  And she will pee again inside - a lot - 20 minutes later.

I asked about this at vet and they weren't concerned last visit.  But I've never had a dog that was such a drinker.  And never have I failed to have one potty trained by this age EXCEPT for one who had sadly spent his first 4 months crated - which I know is not the case with this puppy!

She did have some puppy vaginitis at one visit but the vet trimmed her fur around her vulva and said that should help keep things dryer there.  Can vaginitis cause the lack of continence?  Wouldn't that show up on her urinalysis?  Do you think I should get a repeat urinalysis done OR is this not that out of the norm for a 5mo puppy and I've just gotten lucky with almost all the other dogs I've owned?  

Thanks for reading, I'd love any and all advice, and let me know if this should go to the health forum instead of here!

Edited to add: bad photo!  She had a disastrous groom at her last vet visit - she came home looking like a schnauzer.  I tried to "fix" it hahaha...  but it'll grow! :)

[Diane D]

I would return to the Vets or find another one. Please check this link out. There could be other medical problems.

http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/urinary/c_multi_polydipsia_poly...

[Missy]

I am not a professional, but it sounds like a medical problem to me.  As it sounds like you are quite experienced.  The drinking lots of water makes me think sugar or diabetes problems.  I would return to the vet and make the vet really take a moment and listen. 

Hugs as I have a feeling you are getting exhausted with the constant eye on pup PLUS cleaning up all the accidents.

[Adina P]

My Rosco was like that. Huge drinker, bladder the size of a grape. He took F O R E V E R to be reliable. I remember even as an adult dog I'd take him for a walk before heading out for the evening just to empty his bladder. Short walk, lots of stopping by trees ;). Otherwise we'd come home to a huge puddle in the mudroom. He's 10 now and it hasn't happened in a while because I'm vigilant about water if we go out in the evening. I would take her out every 20 min of 30 results in accidents.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I googled excessive thirst in dogs and found this very informative article on the internet:  http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/urinary/c_multi_polydipsia_poly...

And this information in another:  Many conditions can lead to excessive thirst or dehydration in your dog, including liver disease, diabetes, Cushing's disease, cancer, diarrhea, fever, infection, and kidney disease.

A dry food diet -- which may be as little as 5%-10% water -- can also lead to noticeable thirst in your dog. High sodium foods will also cause your dog to drink more.

Large amounts of salt can be poisonous to your pet, so avoid sharing highly salty "people" food with your dog. Signs your dog may have eaten too many sodium-rich treats include tremors, diarrhea, depression, and vomiting.

Keeping an Eye on Water Consumption

It's easier to notice changes in your dog's thirst or drinking behavior if you develop a water bowl routine.

• Refill your dog's bowl at roughly the same time daily.
• Fill the bowl to about the same level each time.
• Pay attention to how much you put in each day and how much is left.

Water is critical to your dog's health and well-being. Never deprive your dog of water. If you're worried your dog is drinking too much (or not enough), don't wait, give your vet a call.

[Melissa]

Thanks everyone.  Yes, it's been in the back of my mind that it could be medical.  I just haven't wanted to admit that possibility.  Yesterday I gave her 3-4 cups spread throughout the day and closed the toilets when I could.  She did ok!  Much to my surprise.  It was mostly the waking me at night to drink that freaks me out a bit. She eats Chicken Soup Puppy dry food.

I am going to see a friend and hopefully her vet husband tomorrow at an event and I'm going to see if I can get a feel for his philosophy on testing for this kind of thing.  I live in a city with a vet school so sometimes I feel like all the vets are too aggressive doing every test just because they have the options to do so.  I guess I'm a minimalist and would rather do the low-tech approach as it often makes more sense.

If I don't see him tomorrow I'm going to give a vet a call.  Not sure I'll return to the same one though.  They haven't inspired my confidence.

So far I'm leaning towards psychogenic polydipsia.  Then maybe the congenital kidney dysplasia or the diabetes insipidus.

Thanks again.  Yes it is exhausting.  For me way harder than a human baby!

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Sending my support.  Please keep us posted.

[Melissa]

Hi all who commented earlier...  I wanted to give an update!

Luna has continued to have excessive drinking and urination issues.  Until a couple of weeks ago.  I took her (and a urine sample) to a new vet.  He sat down with us and asked questions for 45 minutes or so.  He ran the urine and it looked mostly fine.  However she had a very high urinary pH, >8.5.  He drew blood and sent that off to test a ton of things.  He asked me how I felt about a trial of antibiotics for certain kinds of bacteria that don't show up in the urinalysis.  I agreed.

He called me back two days later with results.  She had slightly high phosphorus, creatinine (or creatine, I don't recall!), and SDMA.

He said she could have been a little dehydrated. Totally possible since she'd been tethered or crated much of the day. He asked me to call back after most of a week and let me know if the antibiotic is making any difference.

The wild thing is, yes, it is.  She is drinking much less.  She has not had an accident since she started the abx.  And my family has also noticed the difference.  So we are contemplating keeping her on antibiotics a little longer.

I'm so hopeful it's a longstanding uti and not a kidney problem!  She's 7 months old today.

[Gail and Bailey]

If she is on antibiotics you need to make sure you give her a good probiotic so the "good" bacteria does not get wiped out of her gut!  It should be given at least two hours before or after you give the antibiotic!  You don't want to wind up with the urination problem fixed only to have a diarrhea problem.  Hope Luna continues to do well !!

[Melissa]

Thank you - yes, I have her on a capsule of Proviable DC daily.  I also added Honest Kitchen dehydrated raw to her food and a cranberry urine acidifier for dogs...  She's been ok so far!

[Melissa]

more recent photo.  very poodly build.

[Linda, Charlie Brown and Beau]

Melissa ~ your Luna is very cute.  I hope you can get to the bottom of this if it is medical.  I can tell you that no two are created equal especially when it comes to potty training. Charlie (now 5) was super easy to train and slept through the night from the second night home.  Beau- was not totally reliable until 6 mos.  But since that time, he has been totally reliable.  I never withheld water as I felt if he wanted it he must need it.   Keep us posted.  I hope with a month or so, you are past all this. Good luck.

[Melissa]

Thanks - I am trying not to withhold water...  earlier I did try to discourage the obsession as I thought it was a psychologic thing.  Now that she's backing away from water voluntarily I wonder if it was due to bladder discomfort.  

Fingers crossed that this is it!  I'd hate for her to have a kidney problem.  Devastating.