Acana grain free or Puppy & Junior formula?

[Beth & Piper]

I am thinking of switching the puppy over to Acana, either the Puppy and Junior formula or one of the grain free, most likely Grasslands. Has anyone feed either of these? I like the Acana grain free formulas as they don't have as much protein as other grain frees. The feeding guidelines only show amounts for adults, but I know it is an all life stage. I guess I can just figure by calories, but I have sent an email to Champion to see what they suggest in the way of feeding for a puppy.

I may also change Piper over as they have a grain free fish formula and she does the best on fish. My vet would prefer me not to feed the puppy a fish based food in case we need that later if he develops a food allergy. It sure would be nice to feed one food to both, but I am not holding my breathe that that will every happen!!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Our puppy feeding expert, Dianne Carter of Trinity Doodles, is a big fan of Acana, and especially likes the Grasslands formula. Hopefully she'll see this discussion, but you might also leave her a message on her page and ask her for feeding guidelines.
http://www.doodlekisses.com/profile/DianneCarter?xg_source=profiles...

[Beth & Piper]

Thanks, I just sent her a message. I hope she replies here so that others can benefit from her knowledge.

[Dianne Carter ~ Trinity Doodles]

Hi Beth ~ I tried to send a message to you on your page but we have not had the pleasure of becoming 'friends' first so it will not let me. The ACANA is an all life stages food. For the precise amount I could not tell you by experience because I put down almost 30 lbs. of kibble every 2 days or so (gulp!). However I would presume you could use the Orijen suggested serving as follows:

Daily Ration and Feeding Guide (Imperial units/cups)

AGE IN WEEKS WEIGHT OF PUPPY

2-7 lb 7-11 lb 11-22 lb 22-33 lb 33-50 lb 50-75lb
6-12 ¾-1¼ 1¼-2¼ 2¼-3 3-4¼ 4¼-5 ADULT
12-16 ¾-1 1-2 2-2¾ 2¾-3½ 3½-4½ ADULT
16-28 ½-1 1-1¾ 1¾-2½ 2½-3¼ 3¼-4 4-5¼
28-52 ½-¾ ¾-1¼ 1¼-2 2-2½ 2½-3¼ 3¼-4¼

Her is the link for easier reading ~ http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/products/puppyFeeding.aspx

One thing I will tell you is that I find most foods suggest a rather grand amount to fee and often the low number is closer to accurate.

While I do understand your vets point about reserving alternative protein sources for your trick bag later if it became necessary there are so many protein choices these days, some quite exotic I would be inclined to not make this one of my deciding factors unless there is a history of issues that lead you to suspect it will be an issue.

Many dogs do well on fish, it is the easiest protein to digest. All of the ACANA grain free line have fish, so you may as well go for the 3 fish. Here we open a different formula with every bag. When our dogs have issues that are yeast related (note this is not a food allergy) we prefer to use the lamb formula (Grasslands) because it has sweet potato rather than white potato ~ the white potato converts to sugar more quickly and of course sugar feeds yeast. More often than not our dogs do well on all of the formulas and it is rare we stay on the Grasslands for extended periods of time but it does happen. I should share however that I have seen lamb heat some dogs up ~ I can feel the heat coming from the ears (not infected, just heat) ~ some result in hot spots.

The last thing I want you to know (in this message anyhow) is that Champion foods DOES have a frequent buyer program. Many are told by their stores that they do not have it ~ it is NOT a store program, it is a Champion program. If your store will not provide you with the envelope for tracking your UPC's and receipts either call Champion, or heck call me and I will see if I can grab a stack. Collect 12 mix and match Orijen and ACANA ~ only requirement is same size ~ fill out envelope, present to store, they issue free bag and turn into their distributor for credit/replacement.

I love to hear feedback, please do share how it goes as it really does help refine information and suggestions. Good luck!

[Beth & Piper]

Dianne- Thanks for the reply and I have since "friended" you!

The puppy, Bailey is currently on California Natural Lamb Meal and Rice Puppy formula so I was thinking about sticking with the lamb formula, Grasslands. If I switch Piper, who is currently on Eagle Pack Holistic Select Anchovy, Sardine, and Salmon Meal, I would go with the Pacificia for her. That is interesting about the heat from the lamb formula, I will have to keep a look out for that.

A couple of questions I have that maybe you can answer- I have read a few people on other forums mention they found their dogs drank a good bit more water while on Acana; is this something you have ever noticed? I am guessing with puppy litters, it is hard to tell how much each individual eats and drinks!! The second thing I have read is dogs having a hard time keeping weight on, which surprises me. Bailey is a skinny thing and could really use some bulking up, both muscle and a bit a fat. I don't want to have to over feed him to allow him to gain weight as I would be concerned he would end up with loose stools that way. The last question is, do you notice a fishy smell on your dogs after eating the Pacificia? When Piper first started on EP it was like she went swimming in a pool of fish; the smell oozed from her pores!! We don't notice it any more; don't know if we are just use to it, or she doesn't smell anymore.

Thanks for the Orijen puppy feeding chart, I actually have that printed out. Orijen has 480 kcal/cup and Grasslands has 420 kcal/cup. If I went with the lower end of the Orijen Puppy and maybe dropped back a bit, I should be close for Bailey's feedings.

I will let you know when we make the switch. I promise my daughter we would wait one more week before making a change.

[Beth & Piper]

I went and brought home the trail bags of both the Grasslands and the Pacificia. I haven't decided what exactly I am doing yet, but I am going to transition the puppy over to one of them. I am leaning toward the Pacificia, but my daughter may not like the smell of it; once we open the bag, I will see what she thinks.

One thing I didn't mention is that Bailey is really my daughter's dog. After committing to getting the puppy, she got a full time job; she is one of the luck college graduates!! Since she is at work all day, I became the Nanny/Grandma taking care of the puppy. Since I research all the time what is best for Piper, my older doodle, I feel like I am more informed about what would work for Bailey. My daughter really doesn't want to change foods, but the vet also agreed with me, so I think it will be a go.

My goal is to have firmer poops, no itching, and a healthy looking doodle; is that too much to ask for?

[Dianne Carter ~ Trinity Doodles]

So glad to see you were able to check it out. I am sorry I did not pop back in sooner, things are a tad hectic. Hopefully I hit each of your questions this time in the email I had started.

Yes ~ ALL of our dogs eat both ACANA & Orijen. Right now we have
a bag of ACANA Pacifica open, tomorrow may be a bag of Orijen Puppy, next
who knows? As I said we literally change the formula with every bag
*unless* we seem to be plagued with yeasty issues which in Florida does
seem to be environmentally influenced and that combined with the right set
of circumstances brings about symptoms. Please again note I am not saying
it is a food, an allergy or the environment, but I do know for a fact when
the right conditions are there simultaneously this happens. This is not
based only on my experience, I have been helping with consultations in a
friends premium store once or twice a week and when people come in with
this issue so is everyone else, the waves are almost always identical time
and time again.

Drinking more water on this food? Could not really answer that as I live in Florida,
enough said? More is the norm here. Also I can tell you that lots of water is good,
but I am sure you are already aware of that.

I have seen more dogs 'beef' up on Orijen than the ACANA. ACANA is amazing for
maintaining and perhaps even reducing, but if I were trying to bulk a dog up a bit it
would be Orijen they would get.

My dogs eat alot of fish products and I do not notice any particular fishy odor.
Also the former food with anchovy, sardines and salmon contain pretty pungent
fish smells ~ you know how some fish has a much stronger smell right?

As for Lifes Abundance, honestly I do not like it really for the mere
reason that I prefer a grain free food and I think it costs too much for a
grained food. For the same amount of money you can get a premium
grain free.

Looking forward to hearing how it goes!

[Beth & Piper]

I appreciate your response. I would love to be able to change foods with each bag with either or both dogs, but with Piper's sensitive system, I would be afraid to. Looks like we are going to try the puppy on the Pacificia starting tomorrow. If it settles well with him over time, I would love to then try the Orijen 6 fish if my daughter will allow it!!

We will keep an eye on his weight and make sure he is gaining properly. It's funny, one of my vets said he could stand to gain and then his associate said she didn't like that Bailey gained a pound in one week! As you can see, the vets aren't the best for nutrition advice!

The only reason I was concerned about the water drinking is Bailey is a huge water drinker now, which makes the house breaking a bit harder for him. If it weren't for that, I would have no problem with an increase in water consumption. I ready on 2 or 3 different forums that a couple of people noticed an increase in water drinking and peeing, but that might have been the same 2 people in each forum.

As I just a total nerd that I am excited to try a new food? My daughter says I need a life!! I will update as we make some progress. Thank you again for your help.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

High protein diets have a mild diuretic effect on people as well as dogs. Starches seem to cause the body to retain water, and when they are eliminated, the floodgates open up, so to speak. Think about what happens to people on low-carb diets; the "rapid weight loss" is really just water loss, which comes right back. After the body adjusts to the lower strach levels, the water balance returns to normal. Any increase in water consumption should level off.

[Beth & Piper]

Karen, that makes perfect sense; I never really thought about the lack of starch in that way. That said, while Acana and Orijen are grain free, they are not starch free; most formula's have either white potato or sweet potato. I guess just the idea that these foods have less carbs is enough to produce more pee.

[Beth & Piper]

Just thought I would update-Bailey is almost totally on Acana Pacifica and doing well. After the first day of transition his poops were actually firmer and he wasn't even eating that much of the Acana; I think it was like 2 1/2 tablespoons per meal! I have not noticed any additional water drinking or peeing, and his weight if fine right now. I weigh him on Thursday for his weekly birthday, so I will see what he weighs tomorrow. I can tell he is gaining as he is getting harder to pick up!!

No fishy smell here and he loves the food; of course he loves all food, he is a chow hound!!

I may have him on too many calories, but for the transition it was easier to do it this way. Once he is on Pacifica alone I will drop it down a bit. Bailey is still eating 3 meals a day because he is always so hungry and was thin, but now that he has gained I am going to go with 2 meals a day. I just want to give him a couple of weeks on just the Acana before I drop the afternoon meal. My thought was to just give him less and less in the afternoon until he is just having breakfast and dinner.

The only negative, and it is minor, is that he is pooping more often on the Acana, but they are firmer. Again, I think I may be giving him more calories than he need, so when I drop back I am hoping that will help. Plus 2 meals a day should reduce the number of times he goes also.

All said, I am happy with the food and look forward to switching Piper over to it in a few weeks.