At the end of my rope....

[Gillian]

I'm at a loss and looking for help from my favorite doodle friends. Maizey has had constant issues with her tummy... we have switched over a month ago to TOTW grain free lamb formula because of her allergies. She had a severe bought of diahrrea about a week ago and was put on a low dose of anitbiotics as an antinflammatory. IT worked wondered and she had some great poops for a good week. She finished the round of meds yesterday... and now she's poooping TONS and it's soft and more smelly. We've been through so many trials (pumpkin, new foods, less food, more food, etc) and nothing works. It seems like when she's on meds she's better and as soon as they're done she's back to crazy tummy issues.

So here are my questions -- does grain free food produce larger volume of poops? Is that normal?

 -- Are we feeding her too much food (the 5-7 month old range on the bag says up to 3 1/4 cups.. we are currently feeding between 2 3/4 and 3 cups). Should we cut back? We feel like she's so skinny and want her to put on some weight as she lost some during her giardia episode last month.

Any thoughts are appreciated... poor pup.

[Laura Deutsch]

Well, I sympathize and I will tell you our saga, even though many will disagree with vigor:
Molly is just 6 months. After we changed her from Eagle Puppy which the breeder had her on (soft poop) to Innova Puppy, she continued with mushy poop and then had pudding. She was on chicken and rice for about 10 days. Vet, who we respect a lot and have been using for many years did another sample and she had some type of bacterial infection so she was on an antibiotic. When that was gone he put her on Science Diet ID, which I know that most of the Food Group people highly disapprove of. The reason for this is that we tried Orijen, which made her have loose poop, even though we only gave her 1/4 cup. After a while we tried Blue Buffalo but that didn't work either. He put her on TYLAN, which helped immediately. That is a long term (a few months) gradually decreasing antibiotic. At this point, we are on 1/2 ID and 1/2 Natural Balance (that Dick van Patten stuff) chicken and rice, with 1/16th tsp tylan once a day . Also, we've been giving her a tablespoon of pumpkin at every meal. She's doing great. A whole week goes by before we increase the Natural Balance and we have our fingers crossed bigtime. So that's our saga. IT's working.

[2hpulka53c8pt]

Maya was like this for 1.5 years. She was finally diagnosed with IBS and went on meds so when she was going to be stressed. They worked most times but she still had episodes. She was 53lbs. two years ago. She was way to skinny. I did a lot of research and switched her to home cooked and them to raw and she is now almost 70lbs and in perfect health. We still get occasional diarrhea but its one time and then back to normal. Raw isn't for everyone but I was at my wits end with her and I am so glad I switched her diet. Good luck!

[Michele Follger]

My only comment is that Sunny never had anything but soft poop on any food with lamb in it. I have several friends with the same issues with lamb. That certainly doesn't explain you whole situation though.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Gill, I have some questions. What kind of allergies are we talking about, and how do we know she has these allergies?
Is the vet doing repeat stool cultures to verify that there is no parasite issue? Giardia can be hard to knock out sometimes, and depending on how she got it in the first place, it is very easy for a dog to become reinfected over and over again unless you take certain measures with the environment.
Grain-free foods should not produce larger volume of poop, once a dog has adjusted to it. In fact, it is usually the opposite.
What other things is she getting to eat in the way of treats? And is she supervised every single minute she is outdoors?
It's possible that she has IBD, as we mentioned in another discussion.
I can tell you some foods you could put her on, such as Science Diet formulas and even Nutro, that will reduce the volume of her poop. But it will also reduce her years of life. The reason we "disapprove" of certain foods is that they contain ingredients which have been shown to be harmful and increase a dog's chances of developing kidney and liver disease and cancer. We are not making any profit from anything we recommend or don't recommend here in TFG, and our advice is based solely on our desire to help people make informed choices about what they feed their dogs, and prevent any of our dogs from experiencing tragedies from unsafe ingredients like what happened in 2007.

[Gillian]

Thanks, all. Karen.. to answer some of your questions:

We are talking about allergies that may have been causing ear infections and lots of scratching about a month ago... since the infection cleared up (it took nearly 4 weeks) she has been on TOTW and has not had another infection nor is she scratching. We have not been doing repeated stool cultures, though our vet assured us that the test they do (it's the more expensive one) will usually catch. Nevertheless, I will have the stools tested again. She does not receive ANY treats as the littlest change in diet sets her stomach off into a diarrhea episode. She is supervised outside as we don't have a yard and only take her on leash walks. She does try to eat everything but we are constantly picking things out of her mouth outside. I don't mind the volume of poop as long as its normal and healthy... my main concern is that I am too afraid to do homecooking and really want to find a solution to these issues with regular dog food. I have spent so much money on tests, different foods, probiotics, canned pumpkin, etc. and nothing works. I am very familiar with the recalls of 2007 and have read extensively about all the foods and their benefits here in TFG. I feel very educated and informed, but am unable to help my own pup.

No one seems to know what is wrong with this sweet dog. :(

I'm just not sure what route to take... switch foods? Get her on antibiotics again? I guess I'll call the vet again tomorrow.. if they had a frequent buyer club, we'd be earning mad points at our vet!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The thing is, IBD (sometimes called IBS) is fairly common in these dogs and does seem to respond best to homecooked diets. But your pup is too young for a completely homecooked diet.
I would definitely have another culture done.
You want to make sure she doesn't drink any stanidng water outdoors...puddles, etc. Nothing.
Certain antibiotics, like Tylan, can help gastrointestinal problems because of their antiinflammatory proeperties and not because of their antibiotic properties. But any dog who's getting antibiotics should be getting plain unflavored yogurt (or some other probiotic) to help maintain healthy flora in the gut.
Forgive me, I'm just too busy tonight to go back through the discussions again. Can you give us a list of all the commercial foods you've tried thus far? Including whatever the breeder was feeding her? That will help me make a suggestion.

[HrseMom]

Your situation sounds very similar to ours. For starters....our puppy came to us with giardia. Which can cause some of the symptoms you had mentioned. Did they test for giardia? In our case, this was cured with one course of antibiotics. I have heard it is difficult to treat. Fortunately, the first round worked. Secondly...she had a sensitive stomach and ear issues. We tried various premium foods. Have settled on TOTW. The salmon and lamb formulas. By trying all different foods and treats we discovered she had and allergy to chicken. If you look at most dog foods and treats....there is a chicken base. We have a holistic store in the area that carries many many varieties of foods and treats without chicken. For now...we are sticking to TOTW. Also, I stated to add a teaspoon of plain yogurt to her food. Have been doing this for months. No ear infections. She's a happy girl.
Wish you the best of luck!

[HrseMom]

We may be having an issue with the Lamb formula. Scratching again :-(.Which tells me this is more than an chicken allergy. Only have one option that makes her feel comfortable. TOTW Pacific Stream Salmon. Does not have chicken base. Can anyone think of another grain free brand with fish base? No chicken. Back to the drawing board.

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

First of all, it may not be a food allergy. Could it be the fall leaves or something in the air? Is the only symptom the scratching? I am no expert on allergies, but my doodle Peri used to itch a lot during this time of year. We started giving her a 500mg evening primrose oil tablet over a month ago and the itching is gone. Just putting that out there....
If it is related to foods, why don't you take a look at our recommended foods list?
http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/recomme...

It lists some of the flavors - by brand, grain-free, etc.....
Orijen 6 Fish, Acana Pacifica, Wellness Ocean are a few you might want to try. And generally the fish proteins are easier on the sensitive stomachs. You could always try homecooking if all else fails (once your doodle is an adult).

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Totally agree with this.
While scratching is definitely a sign of allergies, in 9 out of 10 cases, food is not the culprit; inhalaed substances such as dust mites, pollens, and molds are to blame. Symptoms appearing in Spring or Fall, or during a change of seasons, is a reason to suspect inhalant allergies.