Can't seem to stop his "bland diet" nightmare!

[Kim Raab]

Ernie came to us with minor stomach issues at 3 months old. He was on Taste of the Wild Bison all ages food. He would faithfully throw up every morning until I realized that he needed to eat a small serving right before bed. Just when I thought I had that situation fixed, he got very sick and started vomiting with diarrhea about 1 hour after he ate. The vet thought it was an obstruction and after about 1 week of torment and $1000 later, we changed his food to Fromm's Puppy Gold. He did well on that up until about 5 weeks ago at which time he was having consistent "pudding" like stools which then turned into diarrhea. Stool samples ruled out parasites/worms, and the vet suggested that it was a possible food allergy or too much protein in the puppy food. We were told to put Ernie on a diet of boiled hamburger and white rice until his stools firmed up and then begin an adult lamb and rice kibble. After about 5 days of the bland diet we began California Natural Lamb and Rice food at about at total  of 1/2 cup per day mixed in with his burger and rice. Two days into it he began chewing on his paws like a crazy puppy. We stopped that and tried California Natural Chicken and Rice and had the same outcome. The nutritionist at the pet store recommended raw as the next step feeling that we wouldn't need to ease him onto it being that he was used to his boiled beef.  We found that the food would stick with him for about 4-5 hours tops and he would throw up bile. Back to the bland diet and another type of kibble-Orijen Adult Dog Food. After about 3 days of 1/2 cup per day mixed with bland diet he ended up with pudding like stool again and was up every hour on the hour that night. We are currently on only boiled hamburger and rice again and his stool is formed and firm. I added a Kelp supplement to his food along with Prozyme since I am very concerned about his growth an development being only 8 months old and all is well. He desperately wants kibble but I just don't know where to go from here anymore. I have over-evaluated this and would love any suggestions or input from those of you that may have experienced similar problems. My vet has thrown his hands up in the air and said it's just a matter of trial and error at this point. Can my dog really survive and get all of the nutrients that he needs out of this boiled hamburger and rice? UGGGGGHHHHH! Poor Ernie just wants to eat like the rest of his friends!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Lots of dogs eat homecooked food and do very well with it. I can understand your not wanting to have to cook, the concern about nutrients, and the inconvenience of home-cooking for travel, etc., but I wonder why you think Ernie desperately wants kibble? Most dogs would rather have fresh beef than kibble any day, lol.

There is no nutritionist at the pet store. I know this, because the only degree in pet nutrition is a veterinary nutrition specialist, which is a veterinarian with an additional 2-3 years in animal nutrition besides the DVM, and nobody with that much education is working at the pet store, lol. I also know this, because nobody who is up on canine nutrition is recommending any of the Natura products like California Naturals anymore, since the company was sold to Proctor and Gamble last year. Wellness simple Solutions or Natural Balance would have been a better choice if the idea was a limited ingredients kibble for sensitive stomachs. I'd also be leery of the kelp supplement, since there is no clinical evidence that kelp is beneficial for dogs. A good multivitamin would be a better way to make sure he's getting all the nutrients he needs.

Canned plain pumpkin and plain fat-free yogurt are also helpful for digestive issues. 

It sounds like Ernie may have IBS, which is fairly common in labradoodles. Some of our FG members whose dogs have sensitive stomachs and/or IBS are having great success with Honest Kitchen, which is a dehydrated product. I'll post a link to a discussion search here so you can read more about it. It's not kibble, but it is dog food, lol.

[Kim Raab]

Thanks for your quick response Karen!

 

To answer your question about why I think that Ernie wants kibble so badly, he picks the kibble out of the beef and rice and comes looking for more before finishing up his food. He seems to really like the crunch. I thought it also seemed odd that he would prefer that over beef.

 

I do understand that there is no licensed nutritionist at our local pet store, however that is how I refer to her...I guess I should have been more clear about that in my discussion. Since my vet recommended a lamb and rice diet, we started with California Naturals as that was the only brand of that type available that day. We were working our way towards Natural Balance but hadn't made it there yet.

 

I have not added the pumpkin to his diet yet as last time I tried it he ended up with projectile diarrhea. I'm a bit leary about trying that one again but have heard great things about it.

 

Thank you for the recommendation and links regarding Honest Kitchen food, it may be our next avenue.

 

Do you know of a good supplement to put him on in place of the kelp besides what Honest Kitchen offers? Also, any thoughts on switching to a holistic veternarian? We have a practice right here in town and was thinking of taking Ernie there. He is scheduled to be neutered in mid September...do you think I should resolve the food issues prior to doing that procedure?

 

Thanks again for your input, it's very much appreciated!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I believe that Honest Kitchen contains all of the necessary vitamins and minerals, so you probably don't need anything else. Supplements themselves can cause digestive upsets, even if they are natural and beneficial. Fish oil, for example, causes many dogs to have diarrhea. I think that until his digestion is regulated, the fewer things you add or change, the better.

These stomach issues have a lot of vets throwing up their hands, so that in itself is not a good reason to switch vets. The fact that your vet recommends a homecooked diet rather than trying to sell you Rx crap speaks very well of him, and makes me think he is more conscientious and better educated than most.

I am leery of "holistic" anything. The word really has lost its meaning. All "holistic" means is "whole", and the idea behind holistic medicine should be that you are approaching an issue by looking at the whole, the root causes and not just the symptoms, and utilize a whole spectrum of tools to treat an illness. But it seems that most people think of "holistic" as meaning "natural". What we all have to keep in mind is that a good vet doesn't need the word "holistic" in front of his or her name to utilize both alternative and traditional treatment methods. In other words, any vet can be conservative about vaccinating or not, any vet can recommend natural treatments as opposed to drugs when appropriate, and so on. A holistic vet doesn't have more education about nutrition or disease than a traditional vet.

Jackdoodle's specialist is what I would think of as a holistic vet, yet she doesn't call herself that, and her education is traditional. But she always approaches things by starting with the smallest, safest weapons and moving on to the bigger guns only when necessary. She recommends OTC remedies whenever possible, but she also will not sit and watch a dog suffer when there are other options available.

I have heard of cases where a dog is suffering with discomfort from an allergy or an infection, and a holistic vet who refuses to use drugs puts the dog through months of agony with herbal and/or natural remedies when a simple, reasonably safe drug could have spared the dog the suffering and the owner the worry and sorrow watching it. On the other hand, I have heard of traditional vets recommending drugs with serious side-effects when there are other safer, (but cheaper) ways to treat something. So you have to look at the person himself and his own individual approach to treating his patients, rather than choosing because of a label like "holistic".  

[Kim Raab]

Yes Karen, I can tell you that our vet is very perplexed by our situation. I do like the practice a lot but feel that Ernie's situation might be a bit more than they want to deal with. One of the doctors originally suggested a RX diet which I refused after reading about it. The last doctor that saw him is the one that gave us the recommendation of the bland diet (beef and rice) until things improved and then Eukanuba to follow. He did say that it was certainly going to be a trial and error situation for a few months but felt hopeful that we could get him back on kibble again. Ernie's obedience school teacher had suggested this other "holistic" vet in town as she had a few students with similar situations that had luck resolving their issues with this doctor's help which is why I am thinking of pursuing it. She sounds similar to Jackdoodle's vet but does advertise her use of "holistic medicine" in conjunction with standard medicine practices. I just found that she carries Honest Kitchen food so I may stop in to purchase some and check out the practice. I am hopeful that this food is the solution to our problem and no further action will be necessary. Thanks again for you advice and I will keep you posted. Have a great day! :)

[Kim Raab]

I can't believe it, we have a normal poop on The Honest Kitchen Keen food! Ernie is SO in love with the taste of this food that he comes to me and begs with kisses for more and it's only day 1! I don't think that the timing could have been any more perfect as he is now obsessively chewing on his paws as of the past day or two...I'm hoping that was part of the food allergy/issue and that the new diet resolves that also.

 

I scheduled a consultation appointment with the holistic vet...they encouraged me to stay with my vet for his every day needs and work with the new one on his nutritional needs.  I'll be sure to let you know how things go with that appointment and his continued progress on The Honest Kitchen. I'm feeling very optimistic about things today so thanks again for the suggestions! Ernie thanks you too! :)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm so glad that the new diet is helping already!

One caveat about the allergy issue: 90% of allergies in dogs are NOT caused by food, but rather by environmental allergens such as pollen, dust, molds, etc. The timing of Ernie's paw licking strongly suggests a ragweed allegy; ragweed is the most common and one of the most severe allergens known, and this is the exact time of year when dogs and people with ragweed allergies start showing the worst symptoms. So I'm pretty sure the new food will not have an effect on the paw chewing. Sometimes, the lack of storage mites (found in dry foods that contain cereal grains) and an increase in Omega 3 fatty acids and/or an improved Omega 6:3 ratio may help lessen the symptoms. But even in the case of a food allergy, you would have to figure out which speciifc ingredients were causing the symptoms and then eliminate them from the diet. This usually takes three months or more. Just changing brands will not make a difference, even in cases where there really are food allergies.

 

 

[Kim Raab]

Thanks for the info Karen!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Here's a link to a discussion on Honest Kitchen by one of our FG members who has two dogs with very sensitive digestive systems; this should give you some hope:

 

http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/what-a-...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

And another FG member with similar problems to yours who is having success with Honest Kitchen:

http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/still-no-luck-and-now-a-ne...

[Cyndi, The Boys & Callie]

You clearly have a complicated issue and I'm a complete novice but have you tried adding green beans to his food once a day? Not long after we brought Tank home, he started getting PP (pudding poop) and was eating TOTW Wetlands (the fowl) and loved it. I read somewhere about putting a few cooked green beans in his food once a day, thought I had nothing to lose so gave it a try while keeping his kibble the same.  It worked like a charm.  I experimented (thinking he was just stressed with the new home etc) and stopped adding them.  The PP came back so I started back.  No trouble since then, it seems to work similar to the canned pumpkin.  I take some frozen cut green beans and thaw them in the microwave and then mix them in his breakfast.  He loves them.  I know this sounds very simple and others will likely have better ideas.  But, it worked well for us so I'm passing along for what it's worth.

[Kim Raab]

Thanks for the suggestion Cyndi! I'm a Farmer's Market junkie and green beans are very in season here right now...we'd be happy to share them with Ernie and hope that it may help his situation. I'll let you know the outcome. Thanks again!

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

Sophie Bear loves green beans.