Corn and Hill's

[April Cliber]

I'm new to this group so please forgive me if this has already been covered.....

I was leaving my vet's office today and was chatting with the receptionist. She mentioned that they had a food meeting on Wednesday with a vet who specializes in nutrition and also a Hill's rep. That of course pique my interest. I asked her to ask them why they stuff their food with corn? Within about 10 minutes the whole staff and Dr. was involved in the conversation. (I was the last appointment of the day, so was the only client there.) I don't fully understand all of it, but this is the gist of what Hill's claims.

Although corn is a filler it does have nutritional value, is a good energy source and does not cause a dog to poop more. They say corn is not difficult to digest when prepared properly and it doesn't create a greater risk of food allergies. Corn is a good source of essential fatty acids, antioxidants, carbohydrates and high quality protein. Once cooked, corn becomes highly digestible, like most grains.

They say, the word “by-product” should not leave a bad taste in your mouth. The truth is by-products are not only useful in a wide variety of foods, they’re also essential. When processing soybeans, the by-product Vitamin E is produced. A by-product is simply “something produced in the making of something else and they point out that Vitamin E, Jell-O, beef bouillon, and lamb meal are all by products.


They say looking at the ingredients on a bag can be very deceiving. We know they are listed on the label in order of total volume, with the first few ingredients making up the main content of the food. However, what Hills says is that they are listed by weight, and wet food (such a chicken) will weigh more than corn or grain. Therefore most dog foods have equal amounts of fillers or vegetables and meat. It's just that the meat weighs more because it is a wet food. If it was weighed after it was dried (the way corn and veggies are) it would amount to less than they claim. Sorry this isn't worded well, I'm not understanding it all that well still... This is just what I remember them saying.

I was told I could come to the meeting on Wednesday. What questions would you ask? Do you believe what their saying has any truth or is just a sales gimmick? At this point, I'm thinking sales, but am open to learning. Please share your thoughts.

[Dianne Carter ~ Trinity Doodles]

OMG what I would not give for the same opportunity!!! Can we have an online chat with you as our representative? I am sorry April I have to jump all over this one. Lets start with ingredients:

Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Liver Flavor, Flaxseed, Soybean Oil, Powdered Cellulose, Dried Beet Pulp, Fish Oil, Corn Gluten Meal, Dicalcium Phosphate, Dried Egg Product, Iodized Salt, DL-Methionine, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Natural Flavor, vitamins (L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Vitamin E Supplement, minerals (Manganese Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Tryptophan, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, L-Carnitine, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

Many commercial pet foods contain fillers that have little or no nutritional value. Products like corn and corncobs, cereal by-products, feathers, soy, cottonseed hulls, peanut hulls, citrus pulp, screening, weeds, and straw are often included as inexpensive fillers or low-grade fiber content
Ingredients listed as "beef, chicken, and/or poultry byproducts" on pet food labels are not required to include actual meat
Non specific animal fat. Fats give off a pungent odor that entices your pet to eat the garbage. These fats are sourced from restaurant grease. This oil is rancid and unfit for human consumption. One of the main sources of fat comes from the rendering plant. This is obtained from the tissues of mammals and/or poultry in the commercial process of rendering or extracting.
Powdered cellulose is purified, mechanically disintegrated cellulose prepared by processing alpha cellulose obtained as a pulp from fibrous plant material. In other words, sawdust.

Oh, I have to first state I am dropping my head at the keyboard so if I get stupid I will try and correct myself in the morning.

Suggestions for questions (you asked)

If corn is such a great source, why do so many other companies boast of 'no corn'?
What about Aflatoxin?
It appears as though BHA and Propylene Glycol are no longer on the ingredient list but why did they delay removal of this product from their line?

While the bit about the weight of the chicken may be true, many quality foods will also list ingredients like this:
Deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, lake whitefish, chicken fat, sweet potato, whole eggs, turkey, salmon meal, salmon and anchovy oils, salmon, natural chicken flavour, sunflower oil, sun-cured alfalfa, dried brown kelp, carrots, spinach, peas, tomatoes, apples, psyllium, dulse, glucosamine Hcl, cranberries, black currants, rosemary extract, chondroitin sulfate, sea salt.
TONIC HERBS AND BOTANICALS
Chicory root, licorice root, tumeric root, funugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, zea mays, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosehips.
ORGANIC MINERALS
Iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate.
PROBIOTIC MICROORGANISMS
Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.
PREMIUM VITAMINS
Mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin E), choline chloride, vitamin A, vitamin D3, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin B12, folic acid, biotin.

Notice how while there was chicken as the first ingredient there followed chicken & turkey meal? Kind of deflates the weight thing to proportion there.

Poke me with a fork ~ I am done!!! Will pop back later ~ go get 'em April!

[April Cliber]

Hi Diane, if you have more questions, let me know. I'll be taking a list with me, then will report back. :o)
Good info above, sorry I started a discussion and then have been absent most of the day. I've been booking flights and just got a home for my last pup. YEA! The last two weeks are always the craziest, but you know that.... OK, I'm gonna read all these great posts and catch up.

[Dianne Carter ~ Trinity Doodles]

WOW, I woke up and expected to see much more input here ~ I did think of several more things before nodding off last night but they are still foggy and I really probably ought to give others a chance too. After some of the acceptable chemicals on my own consumption list like maybe a couple of gallons of caffeine I will come back and perhaps have something to contribute.

[Lynne Fowler-Oodles of Doodles]

Cornophobia, Demon Corn, Is Corn In Pet Food Really All That Bad?
Posted on December 10, 2007 by holisticpetfood


With corn, corn gluten meal, ground corn, corn grits, corn bran, and corn meal so prevalent in commercial pet foods for dogs and cats, one does have to ask… Is corn really all that bad for your pet?

“When you read the label on a bag of cat food and the first ingredient is ground yellow corn, it should make you stop and think,” says Dr. Jean Hofve, DVM, a holistic veterinarian in Jamestown, Colorado. Even some premium pet foods list corn or corn-gluten meal among the top ingredients, but these foods do little other than keep costs down. They do help to form the kibble, and corn-gluten meal is a cheap source of protein, but too much can contribute to health problems, especially in cats.

As a holistic pet parent who lost not one but two kitties within a few weeks of switching them to a so-called holistic brand (at the time, I wasn’t tuned into to “corn” as a problem for pets), and the vet blamed the corn, I avoid corn in pet food even more that I avoid by-products.

In this article from IsYourPetFoodSafe.com, the parent of The Holistic Pet Food Blog, I’ll tell you why.

Catkins or Carbs?

The November/December 2007 issue of Animal Wellness Magazine has a very simple reason to avoid high-carbohydrate diets in pet foods… and since most of the carbs in pet foods come from corn, I read this article as strong counsel to avoid it in your pet food.

There are medical conditions such as obesity, pancreatisis, diabetes, and liver disease which are being seen with greater frequency, especially in cats. The culprit, according to Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins, DVM, Esq., is a high-carb diet. “These high carb diets assault the sugar-controlling functions of both the liver and the pancreas, causing obesity and predisposing the cat to hepatic lipidosis (liver function impairment). Liver disease, in particular, is “invariably linked to the carbohydrate-rich commercial diets, especially the dry ones, so commonly fed to felines”.

Aflatoxin

Mere diabetes, obesity, and liver problems are just the most common thing that can happen to your pet. I was shocked to find out that corn is highly subject to the aflatoxin fungus. Aflatoxin is a fungus common on legumes, corn, and other grains, and it’s as deadly to humans as it is to dogs and cats. It attacks the liver and causes death. Notice I didn’t say, “frequently”. More like, “almost all the time”.

Steve Shrum, president of the South Carolina Association of Veterinarians, a state hit pretty hard by dog deaths, said, “It takes such a small amount, and there’s pretty much nothing you can do with the process that will inactivate that toxin once it gets in the food supply.”

Aflatoxin is a well-known fungus and when pet food companies tell you they have strict quality controls, one thing they are constantly testing for is aflatoxin fungus.

Of the many major pet food recalls over the last thirteen years, aflatoxin features prominently. Just two years ago, Diamond Pet Foods recalled 19 brands made over a four-month period because of documented dog deaths from liver toxicity.

Food intolerance and allergies

According to Dr. John Syme, a holistic veterinarian who preaches that food intolerance, allergies, celiac disease, and even epilepsy are all related to certain grains in pet foods:

“The most serious food intolerances are those to the gluten grains (wheat, barley, and rye), casein (dairy products), soy and corn, with the first three being the most common… Gluten, dairy products, soy and corn are doing an incredible amount of harm to a phenomenal number of people and animals”.

Commercial and even some so-called holistic pet food companies don’t want you to know this

One prominent, extremely high-priced, so-called holistic pet food manufacturer claims that the “they have corn and we don’t” premise is merely a marketing technique. They call it “cornophobia”, the “demonization of corn” in pet foods, and proudly list “corn meal” as the Number One ingredient in their top-selling K-9 dog food.

A quick check of high-profile manufacturers such as Iams, Purina, Science Diet, Diamond, and Flint River shows that they all find a way to distance themselves from the growing public awareness of corn as a potentially harmful ingredient in their pet’s food. One manufacturer states that all corn is grown within the U.S. Another declares that it’s not genetically modified. Others promote the “corn as a top nutritional ingredient” myth.

To be sure, cats and dogs can live well into their teens on a corn-based, dry commercial diet. We’ve gotten used to it, think it’s normal… but our pets are now dying in what used to be their prime years.

Do you know what the natural lifespan of a cat or dog really is? 27-30 years. True. Cat Fancy ran a feature during the summer of 2007 on their readers’ oldest cats. The oldest was 36 and many runner-ups were in their 30’s. This is no accident. This is good nutrition.

Learn for yourself

The reality was something that I learned for myself. I do animal rescue and feed $600 worth of pet food per month. The very first time I fed a truly holistic brand, not one touting “organic corn” but one that had NO corn… my cats stopped throwing up. All of them. Their eating and their litterbox habits changed for the better. Their coats became glossy and their chronic illnesses improved.

It was absolutely unbelievable. So much for “sensitive stomach” foods. All I needed to do was get them away from the corn.

If you consider your cat or dog to be your child and are an “adopt for life” pet parent, one of the 85% of pet parents who would risk their life for their pets, start reading the label on your pet’s food. Take the time to seek out and try safe, holistic pet foods that DO NOT CONTAIN corn.

My favorite pet food has a short video that is the best thing you can do for your pet. Titled, “Do You Know What’s In Your Pet’s Food“, it will tell you how to read the label.

That video is an eye popper and is the only thing like it on the web. Let it educate you so that you, too, can choose the healthiest food for your pet.

Teresa Holladay
IsYourPetFoodSafe.com

http://holisticpetfood.wordpress.com/2007/12/10/cornophobia-demon-corn-is-corn-in-pet-food-really-all-that-bad/


Corn is one of the biggest culprits in food allergies, itchy ears and many other problems in our dogs. Eliminate corn after you have been feeding it and within a short period of time, coat improves, ears clear up, tear stains go away. Anyone saying feed corn is just plain wrong and only interested in making money because it's cheap. Period.

[Adina P]

Devil's advocate questions/comments:

1) Aflatoxin is definitely BAD. But what is the likelihood that a given batch of dog food with corn is going to contain aflatoxin? I eat foods with corn all the time...is this trying to say that humans are also constantly at risk or merely that crappy food companies have a higher risk of passing on aflatoxin?

2) Was the Diamond issue due to Aflatoxin?

3) Carbs do NOT make humans fat (excess calories do) so I don't buy the argument when it comes to dogs either (and cats are obligate carnivores so perhaps their tolerance of carbs is lower than that of dogs). I think the carb issue should be COMPLETELY separate from the corn issue. Nobody complains about pototo or rice or oats in dog food...these all have carbs too. This carb thing is my personal soap box as a nutrition professional...so bear with me.

4) Corn allergies -- is there any research (peer, reviewed, scientific literature) that shows what percentage of dogs are thought to have corn allergies?

5) Aside from fillers that a dog is allergic to or those that might be contaminated...what is the inherent harm in fillers?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I can speak to the corn allergies, somewhat.
Within the total population of dogs who have any type of allergy, which is estimated to be between 10 and 15 percent of all dogs, about 10 percent have food allergies. In those dogs for whom the offending food(s) have been determined, corn has been shown to be the food most often causing the allergic reaction, followed in descending order by wheat, beef, dairy products, soy, chicken, potatoes, and beets. Not all studies have yielded the foods in the same order, however, it is always the same foods, and wheat & corn always vie for first place in every study I have seen.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

In an interesting side-note to this, it is thought that beef ranks so high on the list of allergy-causing foods because the cattle are fed grain; cattle and other food-animals who graze on grass don't seem to produce the same allergic reactions.

[April Cliber]

Chicken eat corn too. So couldn't we reason that fish or lamb would be a much better choice?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Actually, a lot of the ratings systems and professional canine nutrition experts do recommend other protein sources over chicken...especially fish. Fish is supposedly the natural food of many of the 'water" breeds, like labs. And ounce per ounce of fresh food, there is more usable protein in some sources than others. I think that's the issue with the carbohydrates, too.
To compare it to human nutrition, let's say that a person needs X amount of nutrients from fruits & veggies in their diet. But a bell pepper has much more vitamin A and C than a cucumber. Romaine lettuce is much more nourishing than iceberg. We need to have our diets consist of a certain percentage of carbohydrates; potato chips are carbohydrates, but so is cauliflower. So if you're taking in a certain number of calories per day, a healthier diet would reflect better choices. Our dogs require a certain amount of nutrients contained within a certain amount of calories per day, too. Adina or I could speak to these choices for humans, but the issue of what nutrients a dog needs, and which are the best sources for them, remains unclear to most of us.

[Adina P]

So based on this one should not assume that their dog should avoid corn per the allergy argument alone any more than one should avoid feeding their children peanuts, soy, eggs, dairy, wheat simply because there is a small portion of the population that happens to have allergies to those foods...without cause to think their child might be allergic. Just today on GMA or Today show there was discussion about food allergies and how contrary to previous recommendations to avoid certain foods prior to a certain age...it is now thought that these foods SHOULD be introduced early on. Anyway...off on a tangent now =)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I wouldn't avoid corn for the allergy reason alone; I think it is more an issue of what percentage of the food is made up of corn. It is also my understanding that other carbohydrate sources are nutritionally superior for dogs; oats and barley always seem to get higher ratings for dogs nutritionally, although I don't know enough about canine nutritional needs to know why that might be.
Other reasons I have seen for avoiding corn in dog food is that the composition of simple sugars in corn lends itself to becoming rancid more quickly in processing, (hope I said that right), and that it is a cheap ingredient, which I guess goes to the overall quality of the food.

[Adina P]

I think those are reasons that make more sense to me. Although again it probably depends. Corn has a lot of nutritious aspects to it. Most anything from plants is rich in good things. As far as 'cheap' ... cheap due to a surplus/rich supply is different from 'cheap' due to poor quality. As I said elsewhere...I LOVE fillers. My dogs never seem satisfied with the small amount they get from Canidae. If they got MORE volume due to fillers, I think they'd love it. And at our house...no doodle food lasts more than one month IF it even lasts one month, so rancidness is not a big concern.

That said...their food does NOT have corn but it's more because of me caving to peer pressure than because I am convinced it's harmful. I have never noticed a change for the better or for the worse no matter what food they were eating (with one exception of a food that had great ingredients but caused Rosco major gas and then major diarrhea).