Diabetic diet

[Kathy, Harley & Roxie]

This site is such a wealth of information that I'm hoping I can obtain some help my daughter out with her Bull Mastiff that has developed diabetes at the age of 4.  His blood sugar staying in the 400's despite insulin.  Diesel had stopped eating and has lost quite a bit of weight.  She began feeding him 4 small meals a day and he finally gained 4lbs on vet visit today, but blood sugar is unchanged.  They do not feed a high quality food, but are now faced with finding a good diabetic dog food that he will eat in order to control the sugar.  The vet has increased his insulin to the max that he is comfortable with and said next step will be a specialist.  Unfortunately, she does not have pet insurance and if his medical care cost increase dramatically she may be faced with looking into a rescue or having him put down.  Such a sad situation, he is such a gentle giant.  Thanks in advance for your advice. 

[Chloe, Finley & Mama Shelley]

I can feel your pain..My 12 year old lab was diagnosed recently with Diabetes, and doesnt seem to be responding to the insulin so far either. She has lost 13 lbs, but however she has a great appetite still and seems to want to eat constantly but then she is also very thirsty and drinks water all the time and urinates a lot. The vet sometimes some dogs are just resistant to insulin..so at this point and at her age we are kindof at a loss..she also has very bad arthritis and is losing use of her back legs slowly. Its all very sad. Hopefully we will get some good advice here.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Kathy, I'm sorry to hear about your daughter's dog. Unfortunately, advice on diets for serious medical issues like diabetes are beyond the scope or expertise of this group. I am not familiar with any diabetic dog foods, and I don't think any of our other FG members are either.

Hasn't her vet made any food recommendations?

There are support groups for owners of diabetic pets, which include nutritional advice. Perhaps they can help:

http://www.petdiabetes.net/

http://caninesupportgroup.com/diabetes_in_dogs.htm

 

Here are some articles that gives some information:

http://www.bd.com/us/diabetes/page.aspx?cat=7001&id=7389

http://www.diabetesindogs.net/dog-diabetes-diet.html

 

I have to say something that you may not want to hear, but you did bring up the subject of expenses. My own dog has two immune-mediated diseases, one recently diagnosed, and his vet bills in the past two months are over $6000 and climbing. I also do not have pet insurance, these diseases are not curable, they can only be managed, and the treatments are for life. My dog is in the care of two different specialists. So I understand very well how expensive it can be to have a sick dog. Still, he is my responsibility, I chose to have a dog, I love him, and I am going to do everything I can to help him, even if it means going into debt to do it. Should he have to lose his life simply because he had the bad luck to get an owner who didn't get health insurance for him?

It is more stressful than anyone can imagine for a dog to lose his home and go through the trauma of being rehomed, and this is true even for healthy dogs. The idea of causing this kind of stress to a dog who is dealing with a serious illness is unimaginable to me. I also know that nobody is going to want to adopt a dog who is now uninsurable and has serious health problems that require time and money to manage.

So there really is no choice here, IMO. We have an obligation to do right by the dogs for whom we volunteered to be responsible.

I hope your daughter can get the help Diesel deserves.

 

 

 

 

[Kathy, Harley & Roxie]

Thank you Karen for the reference articles and the support groups.  I did some searching last night, but did not think to look into support groups.  Her vet has recommended 2 brands, but historically vets have not been very knowledgeable regarding nutrition.  Your input as to the responsibility of dog ownership does not fall on deaf ears.  I had discussed pet insurance with her prior to this happening.  Education on how affordable it can be should be and possibly proof of insurance prior to taking possession of a new pet might need to be a standard with rescues,adoption service, vets and breeders.  The discussion of incurring large amounts of dept is a philosophical one and I can not encourage her to do so, the money is just not there.  As I said, it is a very sad situation and a very painful lesson she is learning.  As always I value the advice and discussions here on DK,  an amazing asset for pet owners.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Kathy, if you can give us the exact formulas the vet recommended, we may be able to come up with alternatives. I need the nutrient percentages. We've done that for dogs with other illnesses.

At the very least, I can analyze the quality of the foods in terms of ingredients.

The support groups can be very helpful, even with costs. Last week, I learned that a medication the specialist prescribed for Jack, which costs $85/mo. at the human compounding pharmacy, can be purchased on-line for $50 for a 5 year supply. Then I do have to fill my own capsules, but for that kind of savings, I'll manage, lol.

 

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Reading this made me remember a discussion a while ago about resources to help pet owners faced with significant vet costs and insufficient resources to cover those costs.  It seems to me that I read here on DK about organizations that provide help in these situations.  I know there is the Doodle Messenger, but it seems like there were others as well.  I've been searching through Discussions, and I just can't find it.  Does anyone else remember this?  I agree with Karen that it would be totally heartbreaking to have to euthanize a dog or give him up to rescue because of a situation like this.  I'll keep looking, but hopefully someone will remember this and know where it is located.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I hope we can find it again, because I could sure use it.

[Kathy, Harley & Roxie]

Was able to talk with daughter briefly today...some good news.  Petplan has agreed to cover him and if he can have vet verified blood sugar control for 6 months, they then will cover his diabetes complications in the future.  The vet recommended Hills science diet 2...due to the complex carbs.  I encouraged her again today to join this site since I have never known of a site with more sound advice on dog related issues. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm so glad to hear this great news!

I'll try to look up Hill's Science Diet 2, but it doesn't sound familiar. Their Rx foods usually have names like z/d, i/d, k/d etc.

Complex carbs are the easiest, cheapest ingredient in the world to find, and the ones in Hill's are very poor quality. Let's see what i can find.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Okay, here's what I came up with:

http://www.hillspet.com/products/product-search-results.html?brand=...

There are two formulas, r/d and w/d.

[Kathy, Harley & Roxie]

it is the w/d, but she didn't mention "w/chicken"

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There's barely any difference between the one with chicken and the one without chicken. The one "with" has chicken liver. Both contain chicken by-products, corn, and a bunch of other junk, What this is primarily is a low protein, low fat, hight fiber, very high carb food, mostly designed for weight loss, which makes sense because the corn and other carbs are indigestible for the most part and just fillers. An 80 lb dog like Jack would need 5-7 cups per day and still would lose weight!

I can't understand how high carbs can be good for a diabetic dog, but i guess the main focus is weight loss. Since there's no dietary method of reducing his dependence on insulin, I guess keeping the weight down is the only dietary means of helping to manage the disease.

So all we have to do is find a low protein weight reduction food with a lot of grain, lol.

[F, Calla & Luca]

That is wonderful news. Yay Petplan.