Diarrhea x 6 weeks

[Jill, Woody & Maxi]

Hello

 

We have a 5 month Goldendoodle, Woody.  He has diarrhea for 6 weeks now.  We have taken him to 2 different vets through the course of these 6 weeks.  The first stool sample showed nothing, but the vet prescribed us 2 antiobiotics and an Iams RX food (which now after reading the forum, I will never do again).  This treatment didn't work, after getting frustrated with no answers, I decided to switch vets, one week later, roundworms and giardia showed up in his stool, the new vet prescribed another round of antibiotics for a period of 10 days and a different food, Natural Balance.  His stools firmed up while on the anitbiotic, but once the pills were done, the stools softened again, so we took him off the nat.balance and started feeing boiled hamburger and rice. We took him back to the vet, he did another stool sample, and bloodwork.  Stool sample came back clear, blood work showed some elevated levels, and the dr is considering doing a ACTH stim test (for Addisons).  The vet reccomended another round of antibiotics and another type of food..Science diet light...which again, after reading the forms, I cant wait to go home to throw it away.  I am at wits end, I feel like I cant get a straight answer, and of course, I feel terrible for Woody.  I cant imagine being sick like that for this long..I appreciate any advice! 

 

Thank you in advance,

Jill

[PJ Brennan]

Hey Jill,

 

I know how frustrating this can be.  My partner and I went through this when our Labradoodle, Gus, was a baby.  I don't know what it is about Doodles, but I'm guessing that they adopt the sensitive stomachs from the poodle line.  Also, you never know how their little bodies respond to vaccines and how long it takes their bodies to readjust...

 

Now that the giardia and roundworms are gone and the bloodwork is clear, you can begin experimenting with DIET.  Cheap foods haven't worked for our Gus, we believe he has a grain intolerance.  We've been using Orijens Fish and wild board - the two grain free formulas for our guy for almost 2 years now with great success.  We don't give him many treats either, because we know that the variety of ingredients in his treats produce loose stools.  We also use pumpkin when he needs help binding up (maybe a tablespoon per day, until he's fixed).  You may also elect to put a little plain organic yogurt in one of his meals to get the probiotics working.

 

Give it a few weeks before you change the food again.  Changing the food often can really upset your dogs stomach and BM's.  Keep in mind, there are some precautions about high protein diets and puppies.  Your dog needs to be exercised on this kind of diet.  Other possible diets are the raw food...I don't know much about that, but it may be another avenue if your dry foods aren't working.

 

It takes patience and some time, But I"m confident you can find his solution.  Keep an eye on his mood.  If he becomes lethargic or acts weird - take him to the vet.  If he's got loose stool but he's happy and energetic - make sure he's drinking enough water and keep trudging along with the diet.

 

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

I fully agree with PJ on this.  Changing foods really upsets a stomach. Why don't you give a high-quality grain-free food a try (like Orijen) - start SLOWLY mixing it in with the current food.  Give a few weeks to adjust and see how things go.  Then you could try the addison's test.

 

i am also hoping Jane will chime in here - her doodle Murphy has had lots of problems and she is figuring things out slowly but surely.  See her recent discussion on this (she replied 1 day ago).

 

I would not do the Science Diet lite though...

[Jill, Woody & Maxi]

Thank you both for your replies...we did start out on Fromms,large puppy breed dry food.  But I'm thinking now I need to go grain-free?

[Kathy Hoppe]

My last doodle had (Addison's) which I pray your little guy doesn't, but I would suggest grain-free food. He should have nothing else in his diet except grain-free food. I was told for up to at least 6 months to see the difference. Ask your vet about treats like fish and etc. I'm sure your vet has checked and re check Woody's teeth gums at every visit but you can always check them yourself. It's one of the ways to help check your pups health. Or at least for myself and my doodle. Gums should be red not pinkish or white. Take your finger and press down on the gums too see how fast the blood pools back. Or have your vet explain to you what I'm trying to say. Everyone that owns a dog should know the gum test.....

Kathy & Lauscha

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

If you are really desperate you can try the Honest Kitchen Embark (freeze dried raw).  It totally stopped Murphy's diarrhea in one day, and it has not come back.  Even now when he's on antibiotics for his "hot spot", his poops are fine.  It has been the only food that has agreed with Murph.  I only say try it if you're "desperate" because it is more expensive even than the Orijen.  For me though, it has been worth the extra money to see the amazing change in Murphy.  Good luck....I understand how discouraging this is.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It can take a long time for the digestive system to right itself after long-term antibiotic treatment. The antibiotics kill the good flora in the intestinal tract along with the bad, and especially in a young dog whose digestive system is immature, it can take awhile for things to get back in balance.

The pumpkin and the yogurt are both good suggestions. I would also go with a grain free food like Orijen. Don't worry about protein levels, current research shows it is rapid weight gain and not higher protein levels that have to be watched with larger breed dogs.

The digestive issues and "sensitive stomachs" we're seeing in doodles is really not from the poodle side. I had many poodles over the years, and they had perfect digestive systems. But those were top-quality show dogs. All poodles are not created equal, just as with any breed. It's the overall health and genetics of the breeding dogs, regardless of what breed they may be, and the care and nutrition that the puppies get from birth that makes a difference.

[Tracey Birling]

So sorry to hear about your puppy's tummy issues! I was also going to suggest a bit of yogurt & especially the pumpkin. Obviously if there is some kind of infection you'll need to work w/ your vet on the meds... but pumpkin really does a great job of binding! I've used it a few times w/ my pup and it has REALLY firmed up his stools quite a bit. A breeder of doberman's and Fromm Adult Gold user that I know says that when her dogs have stool/tummy issues she adds some cut up (cooked) egg noodles to their food just until the tummy issues are cleared up. I have never tried this, but she swears by it and says that she does that instead of the RX diets that vets will often prescribe.

Good Luck :)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I would NOT follow the advice about the egg noodles. Adding a starchy wheat product to the situation is not going to help matters. Many dogs have sensitivities to wheat in the first place. White rice would make more sense, if you're going to introduce starchy carbohydrates.

[PJ Brennan]

Agreed.  While well intended, I wouldn't rely on hearsay or apply other breeds issues to that of the Almighty Doodle.

 

Also, Gus tried Fromm's about a month ago and the results were disastrous.  I've heard great things about Fromm's, but it didn't work for our guy.

[Tracey Birling]

Interesting. Although I would never feed a dog food with "wheat" (or corn/soy etc..) on a regular basis, I personally would try this (egg noodles or rice, or whatever grain seems to help the temporary issue) before trying a vet RX product if other things weren't working. Although some dogs have sensitivities to wheat in the first place, it may be a temporary help to get them through a stomach issue. Again, not a long term fix... I have also read things that say when dogs are going through a rough bout of a parasite (or other illness), they may not be able to handle the high protein foods like they normally would. My vet is a huge supporter of grain free and healthy grain diets, however he said that there are times when some can be introduced temporarily to help out during an illness (not on-going digestive issues). I think gradually switching over to a grain free diet is of course a good long term plan - but if there is a short term parasite or illness involved grain free may not temporarily help solve the issue. Just my two cents :)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Grain-free foods will definitely not help solve a parasite problem; but neither will grains. No type of food is going to help resolve parasites or illness.

In fact, carbohydrates of all kinds are mostly fillers in terms of canine nutrition, but in the case of fruits and vegetables, they at least provide fiber, which can help with stool issues. Starches do not. White rice has long been used as a temporary dietary addition for diarrhea in both humans and dogs, because of the binding properties, but there is no evidence that noodles, any other form of wheat, and other grain products have the same effects. There is always someone who says "I tried such-and-such and it worked for me", but this group attempts to base advice and information on facts and research as much as possible, and not on anecdotal advice from the groomer, the breeder, etc.

As far as the Rx foods sold by the vets go, except in an extreme emrgency or life-threatening illness, they should be avoided, period. Some information on that:

Why You Should Say No When Your Vet Recommends Rx Food

[Tracey Birling]

Wow some pretty passionate opinions in the Food Group - which I actually think is great :) What I love about groups is that we are all free to share - and free to take whatever advice we would like. I completely agree that no food will resolve a parasite problem or illness, what I mean is that, just like in humans, some foods may be tolerated and digested more easily by certain dogs while they are going through an illness. It probably is individual to each dog as well. That is why not every dog is allergic to corn, wheat or soy, but many are. (However since they are a filler, shouldn't be used on a long term basis). I was merely stating what has worked (for MANY years) for a certain person's dogs that I know, and who I trust, and who has a similar food philosophy to those that I have seen in this group. Just possibly something to try if nothing else is being tolerated. Take it or leave it, but I absolutely love getting advice like that! Many times little tips and tidbits that have worked for people in the past don't warrant scientific research, and therefore there isn't any :)  Actually I completely agree with the majority of the recommendations that I've read here on the food group. I think it's a wonderful group and looks to be a great source of information!