Fromm Too Rich??

[Gillian]

Hi Everyone!

Well Maizey is eating the Fromm Puppy Formula and doesnt have the FIRMEST stools yet (she's still transitioning so I"m not too concerned about it) however, my vet said that this food may be too rich for her. What does that mean!?!? I refuse to feed her garbage from the big brands, and all the great brands (like Fromm) are rich with quality ingredients... so aren't all the quality foods going to be rich?! I'm a bit confused... I don't think she has problems with grains yet, so I don't want to go completely grain-free at this point, I'm just confused what would be a "not rich" quality food. Any thoughts?

[Melissa & Porter]

Can't answer your question, per se, but Porter's poops are a little softer on Fromm than California Natural, but I still use both brands these days, sometimes even in the same bowl...

[Kim]

There was just a discussion a few weeks ago about foods being "too rich," search that term in the food group search area! I'm not sure how to link it!

[Gillian]

Thanks I found it :) Just curious if Fromm's is "richer" than other premium foods or if the fat content is comparable.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Hi, Gill. I recently posted a discussion here about the misuse of the term "too rich" as used by some doggy professionals.
http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/too-rich
Fromm foods are not "too rich". Richness in food has to do with fat content, and Fromm is fine in that department.
Many people who are not well-versed in nutrition refer to the better dog foods as "rich" when what they mean is that the food contains a lot of high-quality ingredients or is higher in protein than the junk foods. This mistaken belief is a kind of anthropomorphism along the idea that simple, high starch, processed foods are easy on human's stomachs when they are ill; i.e., crackers or rice as opposed to hamburger or broccoli, lol. Sometimes they also mean that maybe a simpler formula with fewer ingredients, like California Naturals or Natural Balance, would be better.
As we have mentioned many times here in TFG, veterinarians are not well-educated in canine nutrition, and what little information they do receive in veterinary school is provided by Big Dog Food- mainly Purina & Hill's, to whose advantage it is to present the idea that better quality ingredients are somehow harmful.
The quality foods we recommend are not "rich"; the junky foods the vets recommend are actually much richer, in the true sense of the word, in that they usually have higher fat content.
I'm glad you're not concerned about the time it is taking for Maizey to adjust to the Fromm's. If more time goes by and you are not satisfied with the quality of her stools, we can explore some other options.

[Melissa]

Buddy's stools have always been firm on California Naturals. He loves it and I love that stools are easy to pick up. He had a bug when we got him and was on antibiotics, so soft stools then, but since that cleared up things have been great!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

California Naturals has always been our "go to" food for dogs who have digestive issues. Unfortunately, we are concerned now because of the buyout by P & G of the Natura lines. But at this point in time, there is no problem.

[Minga & Malu & Costa]

Malu eats Puppy Gold from Fromm's and he has no problem with stools. Possibly just the transitioning stage, as you said. Definitely Fromm is not too rich, I think some vets use this to describe the protein content (mistakenly) but Fromm doesn't have that high of protein.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Minga makes a great point. To prove to you that the vets don't have any idea about the nutritional content in any dog food, including, including the ones they recommend, here's a comparison of the macronutrients and calories in two Hill's Science Diet formulas vs two Fromm formulas:

Hill's "Nature's Best" Chicken & Rice Puppy Food
445.4 kcal/per cup
Protein 30.2
Fat 22.1
Crude Fiber 2.7

Hill's Science Diet Puppy Food
384.0 kcal/per cup
Protein 32.0
Fat 22.9
Crude Fiber 3.6

Fromm Gold Puppy Food
430 kcal/cup
Protein 27%
Fat 18%
Fiber 3.5% Max

Fromm Four Star Chicken a la Veg
370 kcal/cup
Protein 24%
Fat 15%
Fiber 3% Max

Now, do you think the vet would tell you that Science Diet is "too rich"? Yet, it has way more fat (and even calories) then the Fromm formulas, and also contains more protein...so Minga's point about these people meaning the food is too rich in protein still shows us that they don't know what they're talking about. And let's not even get into the difference in ingredients...by-products, pork fat and wheat vs chicken meal, rice, and vegetables, etc.
I wsh everyone could print this out and keep it handy for the next time the breeder, groomer, or vet calls a quality food "too rich".
If your dog is sick, talk to your vet. If you need advice on dog food, come talk to us.

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

I am late on this discussion, have been out of town....

You already know that Fromm is not too "rich". I feed Peri Fromm and she loves it. She does not always have perfect stools, but it does seem people get some firmer ones by feeding grain-free.
Just do what works for Miazey. We know Fromm is a high quality food; heck, us humans could probably eat it. HA!

I mainly wanted to see how Maizey is doing now???

[Gillian]

You're so sweet to check in... well Maizey was doing GREAT! She transitioned from her bland diet (Due to antibiotics and loose stools) to Fromm's and her poops started firming up... well then this past week, my mom was puppy sitting while my hubby and I were out of town... and she noticed she was having accidents in the house and started having very runny stools, so she took Maizey to the vet... and low and behold she has another UTI! She has had 2 UTIs in the 4 weeks we've had her (she's been on antibiotics nearly all 4 weeks now!) So now we are back on chicken and rice, and I'm at a loss as to why the UTIs are so frequent... we are starting to run some tests next week to see if there's something wrong with her kidneys, etc...quite a long update you got from me, huh?!!?

Anyway, within a week on Fromm's her poops firmed up (and we used pumpkin and probiotics to aid) and I know when she's ready to transition back to it, she'll do great again!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

We've heard about a couple of doodle puppies who have problems with chronic UTIs here lately. Was Maizey spayed before coming to you?

[Gillian]

NO she is not spayed yet (which really concerns me about how bad she may get them once she has surgery! yikes!)

I plan to call the breeder this week to ask about any other pups that may be having the same issues... the vet mentioned something about this could be a problem she was born with (which may require surgery!) If this is the case, does this fall under the health guarantee I was given by the vet?? We've already spent hundreds on vet bills and meds for these infections... just wondering if I have any recourse with the breeder.