Getting frustrated... canola ? & orijen ?

[Tracey Birling]

Well, I'm starting to get a little desperate :(  Cooper is just plain turning away his food! Yesterday he ate only 1 cup of food all day, and according to the bag (American Nat. Premium original) he should be eating 4 to 5 cups/day for his age and weight. I know it was recommended that I give him at least a month on his current food because he is so young - but I do want to make sure he's getting what he needs! I have a few thoughts...

 

1. Since he's such a finicky eater - wondering if feeding him a more nutrient dense food would benefit him. I have a girlfriend who this didn't work well for her dog because he LOVED to eat, and only feeding her dog a couple of cups a day (even though higher in calories) just didn't satisfy him. Cooper just has never seemed to "relish" in the act of eating, so I'm thinking that he might do better on a higher calorie food where I don't need to feed him as much. (However maybe if I found a food that he loves he would enjoy eating :)

 

2. Thank you so much Karen for getting into omega ratios. I have been researching foods and read some articles about this. I was thinking about Fromm or TOTW. (I'd prefer Fromm, but I do have to drive over 30 minutes to get this food, whereas TOTW is 2 mins from my house). But after looking at calories and omega ratios, neither of these foods look that great to me. I guess I'm wondering what all of the hype about TOTW is? (No offense to anyone who uses this!) I guess because it's a lower cost grain free - that's a good thing. But the omega ratios weren't that great (I think the wetlands was the only one that was less than an 8:1). I also noticed that totw uses canola oil. I've read that this is a controversial ingredient. Is this true? Shoudl I be worried about canola oil? I'm guessing that salmon or fish oil would be a better source of Omega 3's.... but just wondering... The Fromm's looked good - but again the Omega ratios were in the 5s & 6's. They ingredients seeemed a little better than the totw in my opinion.

 

3. I was looking at Orijen as well. I see that it's sold about 30 minutes from my house as well. If I'm not going out on a weekly basis to purchase food - this is not a big deal. The cal's and omega ratio's (and ingredients) obviously look to superior to anything else I've seen. And so does the price tag as I'm sure everyone is well aware :) I'm trying to figure out what it would cost to feed this food to my dog/month. For those of you who feed Orijen as an adult - how often do you end up purchasing a bag? Do you switch formulas or stay w/ the same one? I know it depends on what size bag you are purchasing. Just trying to get an estimate here. (To justify cost to my dear husband)!

 

Thanks so much everyone! Sorry if I've repeated questions that have already been answered in the past.

Tracey

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

To answer your question about canola oil first, here's a link to a discussion we had here about the crazy misinformation on the internet: http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/canola-...

There is nothing wrong with canola oil, it is not the best source of Omega fatty acids, but far from harmful.

(Truly, if you search our Discussions, you will find just about anything there, lol. We really have covered a lot of ground here.)

Grain-free, nutrient dense foods are definitely helpful with picky dogs who are not big eaters, but not for chowhounds.

Fromm's is a great company and they make a great product. I don't know of anyone whose dog has not loved it or has had issues with it. Omega 6:3 ratios of 5:1 are very good and I certainly wouldn't let that stop me from using the food. The Dog Food Project uses 5:1 as a desirable 6:3 ratio. Obviously, anything below that would be better still, but it's fine.

TOTW is a decent product that does offer the benefit of a grain-free food at a lower price, and it is also widely available. Many dogs seem to love it, as well. Many of us supplement our dogs' diets with separate fatty acids such as fish oil or EPO anyway, so I wouldn't let that stop me from choosing this food, either.

IMO, kibble doesn't get any better than Orijen, and this is the opinion of Jackdoodle's specialist, as well. It's worth every penny. It is the only kibble I know of that not only uses local sources exclusively for their ingredients, but also provides the information on the exact company that provides each of the major ingredients. Their bags are so tightly vacuum sealed that you can see the shape of the kibble peices through the bag, and they make a "whooshing" sound when you open them; then you hear the kibble falling down as the air rushes in. That kind of quality costs more money, just as with any other kind of product.

I can't help you with cost, because at this stage of my life, JD's welfare is my priority, and I do something very extravagant. I buy 5.5 lb bags for an 82 lb dog. I buy two different formulas, and alternate them at every meal. Jackdoodle has storage mite allergies, and buying the smallest size bags helps with that. Jack requires only 2.5 cups of Orijen per day, even at 80+ lbs. So it costs me about $40 every two weeks just for his kibble, or slightly over $1000/yr for kibble. But I wouldn't suggest anyone else do that. It's convenent for me. The pet supply store is across the street. I have to debag all his food into zip-lock bags, and a 5.5 lb bag of Orijen fits nicely into a 2.5 gallon zip-lock bag. Then I put both bags in an air-tight container.

Obviously, it would cost a lot less if i were buying larger bags; and there is also a frequent buyer program, the 13th bag is free, so I lied above in my total. Subtract about $72 from the total.

[Jennifer and Jack]

Karen, I buy the smallest bag available the 5.5 bag, They do have sample bags but they are very small, I always open the bag and put it in an air tight container. I have not put it in a zip lock bag though, do you feel like their is a need to do that if their is not any overt allergies going on?

 

Our 5.5 lb bag lasts almost six weeks.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Probably not, but I have to wash the storage container with hot water and soap if I put the food directly into it, (every time) and that's a big, difficult job. The storage container is tall and narrow and has caster wheels, lol.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

So cost wise, you would multiply whatever you are paying for the 15 lb bags by 7, and that would give you an estimate of about what you're paying for his basic kibble per year, without including the 5 lb bags of  the other flavors, or the frequent buyer bonus bags. That gives us an idea of what it costs to feed a 27 lb doodle Orijen for a year.

Megan, I wouldn't go with the bigger bags unless you can freeze some of it. Eating from the same open package of dog food for several months would probably not appeal to Douglas, lol. I always notice that JD is even more interested in his food when it's from a freshly opened bag.

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

I feed a different food (Fromm with grains), but wanted to respond to your #3. In regard to justifying this to your hubby, Orijen is a top-of-the-line food and probably has a miniscule (let's hope) chance of becoming recalled and if it did, they would let you know immediately. 

I fed my chihuahua lower end treats that were recalled a few years back and he has long-term kidney damage and has cost me about $5000 to keep him alive.  Sooo, good food should pay off in the long-term life of your doodle's health.Maybe not 30 years ago, but today, with the ingredients from China, lack of inspection, etc...it's worth it to feed a good food.  That's my two cents and I will get off my soap box :) :) :)  Good luck.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'll second Allyson's comments. Jackdoodle's vet and health related bills run me about $3000 a year. Much of that is not related to food, but some of it is. The above mentioned storage mites, for example. If a dog (or a human) is never exposed to something, they can't develop an allergy to it. Reliable large scale studies have shown that certain Omega fatty acids can reduce inflammation. I've paid many hundreds if not thousands of dollars to have Jack treated for severe skin inflammations and infections associated with his allergies. If JD had been fed a high quality food from the time he was a baby, some of the health issues we've had to deal with might not have occurred.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Interesting questions. I feed Acana right now and I'm guessing we use a large bag monthly or thereabouts so say an average of 55-60 per month. Kibble must cost me from $660 to $720 per year for two dogs. I just was checking prices and Pet Flow has a free lifetime shipping offer for scheduled deliveries. That is a really good deal since juggling those big bags in and out of the carts and car is not easy.

Also, Canola oil, formerly known as rapeseed oil : ), is good for people so I'm sure it is not harmful to dogs.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I just realized they charge sales tax in NJ so not such a good deal. Comparison shopping for Acana Wild Prairie 29.7 pounds shows total prices from $52.99 to $81 dollars. These price discrepancies never fail to amaze me.

[Tracey Birling]

Thank you everyone. Altough pricey, actually Orijen doesn't appear to be as expensive as I was imagining (especially due to eating less food). I can't see purchasing more than 15lbs at a time with only one dog, at this point anyway. I think I will check it out.  I did run down to the feed store in my town and noticed that they sell Canidae as well. Good to know in case the Orijen doesn't work for Cooper. (Although I've read some negative feedback about Canidae lately...)

Thanks!

Tracey

[Nancie & Gracie Doodle]

The only thing that I know is that Gracie Doodle who is 4 years old has never ever been interested in her food...not until we added the green beans.  We have had her on Acana for a year now but when we started adding green beans 6 months ago she now begs to be fed!  We just buy the big bags of frozen cut green beans and use about 1/2-3/4 c which we defrost first in the microwave.  She picks them out and eats them first!!!!  Poops are perfect, no anal sac smell and no gas...as long as she doesn't get outside treats when we are out and about!

[Harper]

Just another thing to note. While you may want your dog on Orijen b/c it is the best food, it may not turn out to be the best food for your dog's digestion. We started Harper on Orijen but she never had good poops on it. Now that she is on TOTW she has perfect poops and even likes her food more.

I would definitely recommend going to a more nutrient-dense food if you are having trouble getting your dog to eat enough. That is one of the reasons I feed grain-free food, so it is more nutrient dense (though Harper is now eating her food so quickly I guess we don't have to worry about that anymore!).

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Totally right. Any given food may not be the right food for every dog, no mater how good it may be.