Is the food causing frequent pooping?

[Beth & Piper]

Bailey has been with us for 2 weeks and is now 15 1/2 weeks old. He came from the breeder eating Life's Abundance, but over a 10 day period we transitioned him over to Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken Meal and Rice, which is an all life stage formula. As far as I can tell, Bailey is doing fine, except he poops as much as he pees! He was going up to 7 times a day, once after each of his 3 meals, again about 2-3 hours later, and a couple of days he went when he woke up. The last 2 nights he woke up during the night, went out and pooped. Last night he went a 3 time before bedtime and again at 3:30 and 6:00 this morning; I think he went 10 or 11 times in a 24 hour period!!

This is not diarrhea; his stools are formed, small to normal in size, and have the consistency of play doh. The only think different is last night he did throw up some barely digested food, but I blame that on the grass, dirt, leaves etc.. he decided to eat while playing in the yard. He acted fine and I remember my older doodle throwing up occasionally when nibbling on crap.

I am use to a food not agreeing with a dog causing diarrhea along with the frequent stools. Can a food be a problem if it is just causing normal, frequent stools? Is this just an immature bowel as he is just a puppy?

Eagle Pack Holistic Select is coming out with a new puppy food in the next week that I thought I would try. It is similar to the small and mini breed formula in that the main protein will be Anchovy & Sardine Meal. My older doodle eats the EP Holistic Select Anchovy, Sardine & Salmon Meals and does great on it. Bailey is a mini goldendoodle so neither of the EP HS puppy formulas fit him, but the new one will.

So is pooping 7-11 times a day abnormal for a puppy? Should I change proteins to see if there is a change? Bailey actually belongs to my daughter who recently graduated for college and is living at home while waiting for a job out of state. She really does not want to buy high in food as she has seen the problems Piper has had over the years; Piper has food allergies as well as bouts of colitis. the vet of course tried to tell my daughter that these foods were not necessary for the dog and that what you get at the chain pet stores was fine. Times have changed and the chains are starting to get some of the better quality foods, but as a whole, I wouldn't feed most of what they sell. My daughter agreed to Eagle Pack and she wants to make sure Bailey eats a food that no matter where she lives or travels that she can always buy a bag nearby.

[Lynne B]

That's alot of poop lol..I never had that problem, Beck has always gone twice a day, even when he was a young puppy, of course he poops as much as a small pony during those sessions, so maybe 7 little poops a day wouldn't be so bad lol

[Beth & Piper]

7-11 times a day plus a larger number of pee potty runs makes for many trips out the door. Not so much of a big deal when the weather is nice, but when it is pouring out-not so fun!!

[Kathy Wilson]

LynneB, I'm howling with laughter here! Soooo, my baby is going to poop twice a day, but I need to be ready with a huge scoop.......oy.....and yeah, I STILL want her! LOL!

[Adina P]

I meant to respond to your previous post on this. I have no food recommendations, but I do remember when Rosco was a young pup he also pooped many times a day. Twice in the morning, once in the afternoon, and another two times later--so 5 times...maybe 7 on some days, but never more I don't think. That didn't last forever, though and his poops normalized to less frequent over time. So it might just be his age and stuff moving through at a faster rate for him...OR...perhaps (and I don't know for sure) there is enough fiber and bulk in the food to make more waste than other foods. I would compare the fiber and carbohydrate % on the bag to other foods for pups and see what the difference is.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

My dogs poop more often on EVO than on Kirkland's. It is definitely well formed but just more often.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, the Dog Food Analysis website is temporarily down, so I can't check the ingredients. To me, pooping 7+ times a day is way too much, even for a puppy.
The protein is not causing the problem, and digestive upsets are never the result of food allergies, although a food intolerance might be to blame, but you would need to do food trials to determine that. If an ingredient in the food is causing the frequent problem, it is almost certainly one or more of the carbohydrates.
I would bring a stool specimen to the vet to ruled out the possibility of parasites. If that turns out okay, there are a lot of quality foods that are widely available that may have a better blend of carbs/grains for Bailey.

[Beth & Piper]

I am pretty sure the Dog Food Analysis has the old formula listed for the EP HS Chicken Meal and Rice; most of their formula's were changed a bit a few years ago. Here are the ingredients directly from the EP site, http://www.holisticselect.com/HS_Chicken.html

Ingredients: Chicken Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Ground White Rice, Oatmeal, Chicken Fat (Preserved With Natural Mixed Tocopherols), Pork Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Anchovy, Sardine & Salmon Meals, Flaxseed, Dried Egg Product, Tomato Pomace, Menhaden Fish Oil, Carrots, Peas, Sun-Cured Alfalfa, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Quinoa (Organic), Blueberries, Apples, Inulin, Beta-Carotene, Cranberries, Dehydrated Kelp, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Yucca Schidigera Extract, DL-Methionine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, d-Pantothenic Acid, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Biotin, Lecithin, Rosemary Extract, Inositol, Polysaccharide Complexes of Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper and Cobalt, Potassium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Lactobacillus acidophilus Lactobacillus casei, Enterococcus faecium, B. subtillus, Bacillus licheniformis, Bacillus coagulins, Aspergillus oryzae, and Aspergillus niger.
24% Protein / 15% Fat / Calories - 386 kcal/cup

Bailey's stool sample was negative 2 weeks ago and will be checked again the end of this week when he goes in for his 16 week shots.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, right off the top of my head I see a few things that could be contributing to the frequent pooping. In the first five ingredients, you have only one protein and three grains, plus chicken fat, which shouldn't be in the top five ingredients of any food of any kind, as studies at Cornell have indicated that chicken fat in the top five ingredients of a food contributes to developing bloat. But aside from that, you have an awful lot of fiber in those first few ingredients, and then you have more with the beet pulp (which is nothing but fiber, indestible plant cellulose) as the 7th ingredient. Animal fats will also increase the frequency of pooping.
I would first have a stool specimen analyzed, and if that checks out I would change foods. Go for a formula that is lower in grains and fibers. I don't think there is much of a problem locating most of the formulas we recommend in most parts of the country.

[Beth & Piper]

While I know Eagle Pack is not a grain free food, I feel it is one of the better foods out there. I am not interested in feeding a high protein food at this stage in our puppy's life, although it is something I would consider when he is older. I have looked into Orijen on several occasions, but my older doodle is doing so well on EP HS Anchovy, Sardine & Salmon Meals, I do not want to change her now.

There are two schools of though about feeding dogs a diet so high in protein and I do not know where I stand. Until I am convinced, I will stick with a high quality kibble. I am interested in you thought on which foods you find acceptable for a mini goldendoodle puppy.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Orijen makes a puppy food, which would be my first choice if possible. Innova has an excellent puppy food, and Solid Gold Hundchen Flocken Puppy is very good too.
There is also an excellent "all life stages" formula made by Canidae, with brown rice, and Fromm's Four Star Line is an all life-stages formula which contains brown rice and healthier grains.
TOTW's Pacific Stream formula is lower in protein than the other TOTW formulas, and many of our Food Group members have had phenomenal success feeding it to puppies.
All of these are very "high quality" kibbles...much higher quality ingredients than the Eagle Pack.
I am not necessarily pushing a grain-free food, and you are correct that there are two schools of thought regarding protein levels; but there are much better quality foods that have moderate protein levels and higher quality ingredients than the EP, which rates at about a three out of six on DFA website. It's not a bad food, but if it's playing havoc with Bailey's bowels, I'd try one of the foods with more digestible ingredients.

[Beth & Piper]

I don't necessarily agree with the DFA, but I understand many people follow it. I have spoken with a Holistic nutritionist when I was dealing with Piper's issues. We went through Solid Gold, Innova, Wellness, Canidae and Natural Balance with her before we ended up with EP HS. The Natural Balance Potato and Duck and then the Eagle Pack Holistic Select Anchovy, Sardine & Salmon Meals were the only two foods that did not cause frequent diarrhea. I know Piper would never be able to handle a high protein diet, although I still think about trying Orijen every now and then.

I value your opinion, so please do not think I am being argumentative; I just want you to know where I am coming from.

As Bailey is my daughter's dog, she ultimately has the last say in what Bailey gets fed, but she understands I have done a good bit of reading on many foods. I understand that what works for one dog with not work for another, so some of this is just trial an error. Our vet really doesn't like the high protein foods, so my daughter will not consider them at all. While I am willing to drive 20 miles to get the food I want Piper to eat, once my daughter moves out, she wants to be able to pick up food on her way home from work.

I have considered the Acana Puppy and junior food which I can get around the corner from my house, but again, I don't know that my daughter will agree. Still pondering our choices; I don't spend this much time on what my human family eats!!!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, if the food is causing the frequent BM's, to me the only solution would be to change foods, lol. If you/your daughter are set on this food, then I am not sure what other advice we can give.
The Acana is also an excellent food. Our Food Group resident puppy feeding expert, Dianne Carter of Trinity Labradoodles, recommends it and feeds it to her puppies.
The EP Anchovy formula has better ingredients than the puppy food, and much less fat. The formula itself is more highly rated. While I do not agree with everything the DFA site says, I have researched this whole issue more thoroughly than I have ever researched anything in my life, which is saying a lot, and it has the best, most scientifically accurate, independent information available. I use it primarily for the ingredient listings; the nutritional info I take from my own knowledge and education.
The word "holistic" gets thrown around an awful lot, but all it means is "whole". I am not sure how a "holistic" nutritionist would differ from any other nutritionist; I do know that unless the formal education includes a PhD, there is no degree for a "nutritionist", and their credentials are often vague. I am not sure what Piper's medical issues are, but diarrhea is never a symptom of food allergies. At any rate, I am somewhat confused by the comparisons between Piper's issues and Bailey's issues. What works or doesn't work for a particular dog in terms of food is not a particular brand, but rather the ingredients in the particular formula.
I do not mean to be argumentative either, especially since our whole purpose here is to help and educate. I hope that Bailey's issues resolve themselves. Good luck!