Making the switch to raw

[Emily, Bentley, & Maserati]

My husband and I are ready to switch to feeding raw. I have been researching the Prey Model Raw Diet. I read the list of recommended diets and do not see that method listed, but more "pre-made" methods. Are we missing an important aspect of switching to raw of going this direction versus the meal plan styles? I am very new to raw so please don't take offense to my questions, this is just a foreign side of dog ownership to me! 

We have a 7 year old (85 lbs) & 18 week old (growing too quickly!!) Labradoodles & a 6 year old Chinese Crested Powderpuff (12 lbs) 

Bentley, the 7 y.o. doodle now has grain known sensitivities. As a puppy we started him with Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul. He did well until he hit 2, started having problems with CSDLS so we changed to Merrick but also he did not do well on that, so we went to our vet, he was diagnosed with corn and wheat sensitivities and went grain free. We had been feeding TOTW until all of the recalls w/ Diamond so he has been on Darford successfully until recently. His ear infections, hives, and all the other signs of his sensitivities and allergies have returned, including a sad boy!

Our dogs all eat the same food, so I say he b/c Bentley is the only one with known allergies & sensitivities. Thankfully, the other two don't seem to care what they eat as long as they eat! :) 

Bentley & Porsche do not care for the Orijen, we have tried it several different times over the course of the last 4 years with no luck, so that is what I would consider to be the only other option at this point other than raw. 

We are on-board going the raw route but I am overwhelmed as I've never known someone personally to feed their dog a raw diet and I don't want to mess up. Also, we live in Alaska, so I don't have multiple options when it comes to speciality stores, but I do have easy access to local farmers/butchers/and oceans, streams, and lakes with fresh fish! 

Help or suggestions welcome! Does anyone follow the Prey Model Raw method? Pros/Cons? We just want our Bentley to feel better and make sure that Porsche & Maserati are well feed in the process as well! Thank you! 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Emily, I am not a fan of the prey model raw diets. I have done as much research on this as it is possible to do, and I find that most of the claims made for this method of feeding are completely without basis in scientific fact. From what I have been able to find in the fact-based nutritionally accurate literature, there are many drawbacks to the homemade raw diets and very few if any benefits. It's cheaper than commercial raw diets and better for their teeth, that's about it. With the commercially prepared raw diets, at least you have adequate nutritional profiles and some safety, so we do recommend those for people who want to feed raw, rather than the homemade prey model raw diets.

One thing I do know a great deal about is allergies, and I can tell you unequivocally that whether or not food is cooked or raw makes absolutely no difference whatsoever where food allergies are concerned. If you are allergic to chicken, you are allergic to chicken, whether it is cooked or raw. The immune system identifies the proteins either way, and is going to respond with an IgE immune response either way. While this is proven scientific fact, it's also just common sense. Kids with peanut allergies can't eat raw peanuts any more than they can eat roasted peanuts. People with shellfish allergies can't eat raw shrimp any more than they can eat cooked shrimp. 

And only 10% of allergies in dogs are related to food at all. General practice vets are not experts in allergies any more than your primary care physician is. With all due respect to your vet, there are no accurate tests for food allergies in dogs, and it would be impossible to "diagnose" any type of food allergy without a 12 week elimination trial. Food sensitivities are very very different from food allergies. But regardless, none of the foods of any type that we recommend contain corn or wheat. There are a lot of excellent commercial foods with limited ingredients for dogs who have food sensitivities or allergies. Homecooked diets are also an excellent alternative to kibble.

My advice would be to consult a veterinary dermatology specialist to help Bentley get some relief from his allergies. Immunotherapy treatment has done wonders for my guy, and it's a very holistic treatment method. 

There is a Raw Feeding Group here on DK, but it is not very active. There are also lots of raw feeding groups on the internet. One of those would be your best bet if you want to follow a prey model raw diet. 

[Emily, Bentley, & Maserati]

Thank you Karen, I appreciate it. Like I said, this is a new "adventure" hence all the questions and uncertainty! 

I didn't expand in the post since it was more about feeding than B's allergies, but we did seek the care of a veterinarian dermatologist. We went through multitudes of blood work, food trials, scans, skin scrapings, oral & meds. At one point our guy had hardly any fur left it was so thin and patchy :(  Thankfully, from the picture I post which was taken about 3 weeks ago he has come a long way and so far taking an antihistamine, melatonin for re-growth stimulation, and salmon oil, he has been doing overall great. The reintroduction of his ears infections/hives/overall mood has us worried as we've been doing all of the things that had been working so well previously once we eliminated certain foods from his diet. 

As far as the changing to raw, this way it was a more controlled food being put into his system. We don't have to worry about processing, packing, etc... I will definitely do some more research on the commercially prepared diets. We won't make any switch until we've had the chance to investigate and make sure we're making what we feel is the best decision. It won't be made hastily! My husband is currently reading through the list of preferred methods as I type and making pros/cons. Lots of research to do! I will check out the raw feeding group here on DK, even if it isn't active, I can read through what posts do exist!! 

Thank you again, I appreciate it! I will ask our vet about the immunotherapy. Any specifics I should ask about? 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The immunotherapy treatment is done through a veterinary dermatologist. I'm bothered by the fact that your specialist did blood work, since the gold standard for allergy testing is skin scratch testing done under anesthetic. When that is done, and the dog's allergens are discovered, you then do a series of injections using antigens formulated to increase the dog's threshold of tolerance to those specific substances. Very homeopathic in nature, and it's worked beautifully for JD. The blood  tests are worthless. I've never heard of  "scans" being done in connection with allergies, either. What type of scans are they? 

JD's dermatologist doesn't like to prescribe medications, especially steroids, and only uses them when absolutely necessary. She recommends the antihistamines (Claritin works best for JD), fatty acids (evening primrose oil was the one she recommended for JD, and that's done wonders too) and gives practical advice on lifestyle changes. 

His coat was never affected by anything she did, either. In fact, it looks 100 times better than it did before we consulted her. I'm sorry your experience with the specialist wasn't like ours. 

Have any of Bentley's vets mentioned thyroid testing, or blood work to rule out Cushing's disease? The mood changes coupled with the skin issues might be indicative of a thyroid or endocrine problem. 

Melatonin can also cause mood changes. 

[Emily, Bentley, & Maserati]

The blood work was pre-dermatologist. The dermatologist is who did the skin scrapings. 

He had XRays and Cscans all pre-dermatolgist b/c the regular vet was alarmed by his physical changes and wanted to rule out blockages, he would bloat significantly before eliminating grains. They were afraid he had something physically wrong other than just an allergen. After the testing all came back within normal limits we were referred onto dermatology b/c we then had a dog who was losing fur, had hives, and strange reactions towards certain foods. Bentley was originally on steroids to get his allergies under control but since has taken antihistamines, salmon oil, and the melatonin. His coat looks like a brand new boy after eliminating grains, taking the previously mentioned medicines and supplements. When we were finally seen by the dermatologist his coat was in fair to poor condition, which happened very quickly. It is now back to a great full luscious coat! 

Bentley's blood tests were thankfully negative for thyroid concerns & Cushing's. Our new vet even repeated the blood testing (we moved to a different state) after we transferred into her care since he was then 5 and those tend to show themselves more at a more middle aged date rather than when he was first tested when he was 2 1/2. As frustrating as it is and I mean that in the best way possible, we are lucky to have a 7 year old labradoodle who has a really great clean bill of health thanks to the significant amount of testing we have gone through. It is frustrating b/c I can't explain why we are going down this same road again. We don't know what else to do. We love our current vet and the dermatologist we've been working with who agrees with the previously completed results. 

It is really frustrating as we just want to do whatever it is we need to do to help our baby! 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Have you tried all three of the Orijen formulas? It's really such a great food, especially for dogs with allergies, because the fatty acid content and ratio is so exceptional. Maybe Bentley and Porsche would like one of the other formulas better?

[Emily, Bentley, & Maserati]

They've tried the "Adult Dog" formula in the blue bag & the "Six Fish" in the bright blue bag. Maybe, we will investigate another formula again. 

Thanks :)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Oh, and as far as having control over what's in their food, homecooking is an excellent way to do that too. It would be pretty time consuming with three dogs, though. 

[KLN]

Hi Emily, first off, they are adorable!

Do you not have any access to any type of pre made raw foods like natures variety or Chewy and Stella? That would be the route I'd go if you can. My vet cautioned against me making it myself unless I had a nutritionist (dog focused) building me a recipie...his opinion was that he sees some malnutrioned dogs from homemade diets...my point being, just make sure you're following a diet that you know has a full balance of protein, carbs, veggies, etc.

I had the exact same problem with one of my cocker spaniels (it's actually why I have a doodle now...I love the cocker breed but he was so sick all of the time and my heart couldn't take it again). Cooper would break out into hives (and I mean major hives, open sores all over his body) if he got anything other than his raw food. The nature variety seemed to work well for us but I think chewy and Stella is recommended here. I rotated the lamb and rabbit. He was 20 lbs so he only got one patty...you'll probably have to feed Bentley two or three...it will be expensive...just warning you. ;0). If you make it, it will be more cost effective. I had two dogs and I fed cooper the raw and my other dog her regular food...she didn't need it and it was so expensive...she got orijen.

Cooper was about 2 yrs old when I finally figured out that I should try raw (we had literally tried every high end dog food they make with no relief) and it changed our world, almost instantly. If going raw is what Bentley needs, you will see an immediate improvement. My only caution (and you may have read this on here) is prescription food. DO NOT let your vet talk you into a "hypo allergenic" food. When my vet mentioned it I was so excited...feeding raw us a HUGE commitment and extremely hard when you are traveling. So moving him to a kibble that was completely hypoallergenic and made in a hypoallergenic plant sounded perfect...and he did great on it. Until about a year and a half later when he got really sick and we found out he was in liver failure. It was too late, we couldn't do anything and I lost him two weeks later at only six yes old. In my heart, I know the raw food diet was keeping his liver going and it just couldn't keep up with the garbage (that I now know exists in those prescription foods thx to Karen). It's been a year and a half and the loss if cooper is still devestating. I tell you this story not to make you sad or sympathetic, I just think it's so important that people know that those prescription foods are not the answer. If you're dog is in need of a raw diet, do it, it will change both your worlds. Ideally, if you can buy it premade it will be easier on you but if you need to make it, just make sure you have a balanced diet recipie.

Good luck! And let us know how Bentley does on it!

[Emily, Bentley, & Maserati]

I am so sorry for your loss of Cooper. That is so heartbreaking.

Agreed, we would never feed the vet recommended hypo allergenic food, or really any food I've ever seen offered in vet offices! Yuck!

Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it. We are definitely weighing pros and cons of the different routes. 

[KLN]

Emily, try a small bag of the red meat version of orijen...that's the only formula mine will eat. My doodle flat out refuses the six fish and will (if he has to) eat the regular but he loves the red meat version. It's a great food. But I feel your pain...my doodle is the pickiest eater! It's so frustrating...and especially with everything I went through with cooper (his symptoms started by him not eating) so when my puppies don't eat, it stresses me out! ;0)

[Emily, Bentley, & Maserati]

We  might have to give that a try! Our dogs tend to not "reject" many foods, but they looked at me like I was crazy when we tried feeding them the Six Fish! :) 

Thank you :)

[KLN]

I think it might be the smell. ;0). I wouldn't want to eat it either. ;0)