Medical Urinary SO and Chrystals in Sophie's Urine

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

Sophie was licking herself a lot so I brought a sample in with us when we went for her annual exam. While she didn't have a UTI, she did have phosphorous crystals and a high urine conentration (I think this means she's not getting enough fluids). The vet is worried the crystals are causing inflamation (hence the licking - there was a tiny bit of blood in her urine) and they can lead to stones (scary). She says they always strongly reocmmend the Medical Urinary SO diet (at a wopping $99 for a 13kg bag!!!). My vet knows I'm not a fan of prescription diets, but she said she can't advise me on any alternatives. She said that I would need to consult a nutritionist. She said that the cause of crystal fomation in urine is not very well understood, but that the Medical Urinary SO diet is proven to reduce the crystals and prevent stones.

I'm thinking if I switch her back to orijen it might solve this problem since she didn't have this before (she's currently eating Winston's kangaroo and red lentil kibble). The vet said that whatever I feed her I need to dilute it in water. I have to go back in a month to get her urine checked again. So I have one month to prove to her that is possible to fix this problem without having to rely on the horrnedous Royal Canin Medical food. We got into a bit of a friendly debate on the quality of the ingrediants. I said how is Corn, Corn Gluten meal good for her? She said that high quality corn does have nutritional value for dogs. I say Hokum! I told her it wasn't true and that there is no better  food on the market than orijen, and she asked in a friendly challenge "says who"? Well she had me stumped. I couldn't exactly say "Karen, from Doodlekisses.com says so".

Any advice on how to deal with this problem is most welcome, as I don't want to pay an arm and leg to feed this to my baby:

Medical Urinary SO Ingredients

Rice, Corn, Chicken Fat, Chicken Meal, Natural Flavour, Dried Egg Powder, Corn Gluten Meal, Salt, Powdered Cellulose, Potassium Chloride, Fish Oil, Calcium Carbonate, Monopotassium Phosphate, Calcium Sulphate, Taurine, Choline Chloride, Vitamins (DL-Alpha-Tocopherol [Source of Vitamin E], Biotin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride [Vitamin B6], Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate [Vitamin B1], Riboflavin [Vitamin B2], Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement and Vitamin D3 Supplement), Marigold Extract (Source of Lutein) and Trace Minerals (Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulphate, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Sulphate, Manganous Oxide, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate and Sodium Selenite). Naturally Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract and Citric Acid. Approximately 303 kcal/cup, 387 kcal/100 g, 78 g/cup

Analysis table	Amount
Crude Protein (g/1000 kcal)	40.1
Crude Fat (g/1000 kcal)	40.1
Crude Fibre (g/1000 kcal)	5.4
EPA/DHA (g/1000 kcal)	0.5

Minerals	Amount
Calcium (g/1000 kcal)	1.7
Phosphorus (g/1000 kcal)	1.4
Sodium (g/1000 kcal)	3.2
Potassium (g/1000 kcal)	2.1

[F, Calla & Luca]

Hmm. Well I'm not sure that because she didn't have these crystals before on Orijen means this will put things right. Did they even look for crystals before? But crystals can form in concentrated urine. The first thing you need to do is push fluids any way you can. I will try to read more on this. But we need to get Karen a degree so she can be quoted a she should be. Maybe we can refer to Dr. Kren, DK. Doctor of Knowledge, subspecialty canine nutition. And you should have asked for the proof that the vet's diet recommendation works : )

[Lori]

If you need to push fluids I think giving the pooch some ice cubes will help - Casper can't resist a nice cold cube! He would eat them all day if he could. I hope everything work out for you - please let us know what happens. 

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

Great Idea. She loves ice cubes! Maybe I can try adding a little chicken stock to her water too. That might help.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It's going to be really hard for me to figure out those nutritional values, because they're given in gms per 1000 kcals, but you're not feeding this crap to Sophie. We just have to find a food with equivalent mineral balance like we did with Allyson's Tacky. The answer to the "says who?" question should have been "veterinary nutrition specialists". And even if "high-quality"corn does have nutritional value,- A. do you really think the corn in any dog food is "high-quality"? and B. every food has nutritional value- how does "nutritional value" fix a possible urinary tract problem?

I'm swamped right now, but you really can't go wrong with the Orijen for right now and getting her to drink more water any way you can.

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

No worries Karen, whenever you have the time. It would be great to get your input. I'll go pick up some orijen tomorrow and focus on the  fluids for now.

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

Well, I have been homecooking for Taquito for a year, so I don't remember the mineral balance.  I will need to research what the doctor originally recommended for Taquito (Rx Kidney Diet) and that is what we went off of.  I need to get some things out for work and will do my best to get back to this today.

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

why do you have to add water?  is that just to increase her water consumption?  If you so you might try getting one of those doggie water fountains (we had one for Cubbie when he wasn't drinking enough water and was having all kinds of gastro issues).  It was a pain to have to take disassemble and scrub out every week, but it helped him stay hydrated so it was worth it.  Once we figured out what was causing his gastro problems he started to eat better and drink more water on his own (from a regular bowl)

[F, Calla & Luca]

Here's some info. Sherri. Apparently these crystals may be meaningless.Some low sodium broth may be something you might add to Sophie's kibble for now.

http://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/clinpath/modules/ua-rout/crystsed.htm

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

perfect. I have some in the fridge. Thanks for the link!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Start her on cranberry capsules, too.

 

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

good call Karen!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It's possible that the change in kibble did contribute to this, because there's a ton of flaxseed in the CN kangaroo kibble, and flaxseed is extremely high in phosphorus.