Mixing dry and canned foods and brands + breeder food

[Sonal & Coco]

1. Switching from breeder fed food

Coco's breeder has weaned her off puppy food already and moved her to the 'Taste of the wild adult dog food with venison and bison'.

First off, isn't that weird and not recommended for a 7 week puppy? Coco's vet asked me to switch her to puppy food immediately so I bought the Taste of the wild puppy formula and will start that this week.

2. Eating half her meal or very little

Coco is 7.5 weeks and after her first five days of eating dry kibble (Taste of the wild adult dog food with venison and bison'), she refuses to eat her meals or has a minimal portion. 

To mix her food, I started adding a little bit water to the dry kibble. This kept here interested for 2 more meals and then she would nibble a bit but, never finish her food. 

To make mealtime fun again, I'm considering mixing dry and wet food. Today, for lunch I fed her the 'Wellness CORE Chunky Centers with Chicken, Chicken Liver & Spinach Grain-Free Wet Dog Food' + some kibble and she ate it up as fast as she could. I have NEVER seen her finish her meal so fast. 

Here's what I have, 

1. Dry food: Taste of the wild puppy formula with roasted venison and bison 

2. Wet foods

Wellness CORE Natural Grain Free Wet Canned Dog Food, Puppy Health Turkey, Chicken & Herring 

Wellness CORE Grain Free Turkey, Chicken Liver & Turkey Liver Formula for dogs and puppies

Wellness CORE Grain Free Salmon, Whitefish & Herring Formula for dogs and puppies 

Blue Freedom Grain Free Natural Chicken Recipe for puppies

At our local Petsmart, the salesperson there told me that ideally, both wet and dry food should have the same protein source!! 

The problem is that with Wellness and Blue Freedom (highly rated wet food brands), I didn't find any puppy specific wet food that has bison and venison.  

There is a 'Taste of the wild puppy formula with smoked salmon' that might go well with the 'Wellness CORE Grain Free Salmon, Whitefish & Herring Formula for dogs and puppies'

Is it bad to mix across brands and across proteins for the puppy? How do you keep you puppies interested? 

For e.g. if I mix,

Taste of the wild puppy formula with roasted venison and bison 

with 

Wellness CORE Grain Free Turkey, Chicken Liver & Turkey Liver Formula for dogs and puppies

PS: I've read the other discussion around toppings and switching brands but, there wasn't much that was puppy specific. 

Wellness CORE Natural Grain Free Wet Canned Dog Food, Puppy Health ...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

1. Yes, it's weird that the breeder didn't start her on puppy food, but the breeder also let her go home at 7 weeks, lol. Most puppies do just fine with an all-life stages formula and never eat puppy food. As we've said here many, many times, there is no nutrition curriculum in vet school.

As we have also said here many times, it's a big mistake to change a puppy's diet or add anything new for at least 2 weeks after he/she comes home. Here's why: 

From past discussions: "It's critical that you not change anything about a puppy's diet for at least two weeks after he comes home. That means you keep him on the food and treats the breeder is feeding, even if they aren't so great.

Do not introduce any new treats or chews either. Keep his diet exactly the same as it was at the breeder's. 

Many, many doodle puppies come home with giardia and other parasites. Giardia has a 10-14 day incubation period, so it won;t show up in a fecal test right away. The excitement and stress of leaving the mother, the litter, and the only home the puppy has ever known can contribute to tummy troubles, too. And an 8 week old puppy has only been eating solid food of any kind for about 4 weeks, so the digestive system is very immature.

We have even had members whose brand new puppies had serious health issues resulting in digestive symptoms.

If you change the food before the dog has had a chance to settle in, and before any parasite issues have time to show up in a fecal test, and the dog has diarrhea, you will not know if it's caused by the food change, stress, parasites, or a digestive illness, and the breeder will blame it on the food change. Thus begins a journey of frustration trying to figure it out and an endless round of food changes. You also don't want to do anything to upset that delicate digestive system, as diarrhea can cause a young puppy to dehydrate very quickly, and is going to make housebreaking a whole lot tougher.

So you wait. If you leave the dog's diet exactly as is, and diarrhea develops, you have just eliminated any connection to food as the cause, and saved yourself a lot of aggravation. And of course, if the puppy comes home with diarrhea that doesn't resolve in a day, you know your breeder sent you a puppy with an intestinal parasite and you can probably recoup the cost of the fecal testing and the treatment, lol. (I personally would have fecal done on any new puppy I got, along with a general once-over at the vet's office, but parasites may not show up right away.)

So wait at least two weeks. If, after two weeks, the stool is firm and regular and everything seems fine with the pup's digestion, you can start changing him over. Make only one change at a time."

 

Since you've already not only changed her food but also introduced other new foods and multiple protein sources, there's not much we can do about that at this point, but I would stop adding any new protein sources immediately. 

2. The info you read about toppings, switching brands, picky eaters, etc all applies to puppies. Trying to "make mealtime fun again" is the path to creating a picky eater. Please read this discussion if you haven't already: http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/an-ode-...

And this one, which is about puppies: http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/big-mistakes-but-a-doodle-...

Taste of the Wild is not a recommended brand, so as long as you're switching and adding all kinds of other foods, it would have been a good idea to switch the kibble brand. Then you won;t have the problem of mixing protein sources. Try Wellness Core Puppy and just one of the canned formulas if you feel you must use a topping. 

But I strongly recommend against it. 

[Sonal & Coco]

Thanks Karen, this is super helpful. 

1. The switch was for two meals only today where I fed her a combination of the breeder's kibble + the Wellness core wet food with Chicken, Chicken Liver & Spinach. All the other options I've listed above are wet foods I've bought but, not fed these to her yet 

Option1: 

1. We'll get back to the breeder food for the coming week starting tomorrow's breakfast, it is Taste of the wild dry adult food + stick with the breeder recommended treats.

2. The first fecal test was negative so I'll do a second fecal at 14 days to confirm everything. 

3. After 14 days and the second fecal test, we'll switch out of the 'Taste of the wild puppy' over to Wellness Core Puppy dry and wet food + Wellness treats and stick with the same protein source. 

or 

Option 2:

As I gave her a new brand + protein source today, should I switch over to the Wellness CORE right away including the dry and wet food + treats with the same protein source? 

Not sure which one would be a good way to get back on track. What would you recommend? 

 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I think you might as well switch to the Wellness Core kibble now. It would be easier than switching back and forth. 

[Sonal & Coco]

Thanks Karen, really appreciate the quick response.

Will stick to the kibble and only add in the wet food if needed. Will avoid the breeder's brand treats and any other brands. What is your recommendation on using treats from other brands after 12 weeks?

For now, we're sticking with the following combo -

Wellness Just For Puppy Soft Natural Dog Puppy Treats
+
Wellness CORE Natural Grain Free Wet Canned Dog Food, Puppy Health Turkey, Chicken & Herring Recipe
+
Wellness CORE Natural Grain Free Dry Dog Food, Puppy Health Chicken & Turkey Recipe

Does that seem like a good plan starting tomorrow?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It sounds fine to me.

On the main page of The Food group, we have a link to our list of recommended treat brands. Wellness is one of our recommended brands.

I personally prefer treats that are 100% pure protein, like Pure Bites. 

[Sonal & Coco]

Thanks Karen for the timely advice. 

As predicted, the change in brands and the source of protein caused 3 poops that looked like chocolate pudding - semi-solid. Basically, it went from regular to semi-solid in a matter 2 days.

Last night we had the worst poop and I was certain we were seeing the vet today. 

This morning and afternoon, we're back to a better consistency, still a bit soggy. I'm hoping this will get back to normal tomorrow. If not, will see a vet. 

I've removed all her chews that seemed edible, antlers etc. and giving her non-edible ones right now and making sure she drinks lots of water. 

Thanks again for all your inputs! 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I hope things continue to improve and it was due to all the new foods, but if it continues, do have a fecal done. It would not be at all unusual for giardia to first show up at this point. 

If the fecal is positive, you want Panacur, NOT metronidazole (Flagyl). Insist on it. And don;t buy any Rx food or Fortiflora probiotics from the vet. You will need probiotics, just not one made by Purina, lol. Some vets sell Proviable or iFlora, which are both fine. If not, you'll have to order on-line.