Morning throw ups

[Rebecca bratter]

I posted this on the medical forum but as I wonder if this has sone connection to nutrition, I am also posting here:

Does anyone else's doodle have an issue with morning vomit?  I will post in the food group also as I  wonder if it's tied to diet.  This is something new that started in the last year, I know it's due to acid build up in Madiba's tummy and we try to give her a few pumpkin snacks early in the morning but she does about 13 hours between dinner and breakfast.  If we don't catch her early, she will vomit bile.  We switched her to a raw diet and added slippery elm bark and a digestive enzyme supplement and for a month, she was not throwing up in the morning but it has started again if we don't get something in her belly after about 8 hours.  I can't figure out how to control the acid build up in her tummy/digestive system.  I also wonder if there is any connection to the PROIN she takes for her leaky spinchter, she has been taking this most of her life, she leaks pee at night if we dont give this to her.  This started almost from when she was 3 months old and prior to her spay.  I had her on some alternate natural supplements but when we weaned her off the proin completely, she started leaking again.  We are working with a dog nutritionist and are now ordering a bio identical hormone supplement for her.  This makes me nervous, but I am learning that the Proin is really bad.  Any insights?  

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[Kat and Winston]

I don't know anything about the PROIN, but Winston vomits bile if his stomach is empty for too long. We have started giving him a handful of kibble or doggie treat if he won't eat the kibble first thing to keep it from happening.

We actually had him on a Digestive Enzyme, because he had soft stool, but it actually seemed to make the empty stomach bile vomiting worse and I wondered if it was because the digestive enzyme caused him to digest the food too quickly.

Took him off of it since his stool had been better and the vomiting did improve, but he still can't go too long without food. He eats about 6:30 p.m. but we've started giving him a 1/4 or 1/3 of a cup of kibble before bedtime and then he does do much better until his morning feeding.

 He's only 6 months so I don't know if he'll outgrow it as they say they can have immature digestive systems sort of like babies do, so I'm hoping.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Kat, you're correct that these OTC digestive enzymes contribute to the problem. Most of them are pretty worthless and unnecessary. The bedtime snack is the best way to handle the early morning bile.

[Rebecca bratter]

wow, I thought these would help, I'm pulling her off of these then.  What about the slippery elm bark?  does it serve any purpose? 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I am not a big fan of "natural remedies". Slippery elm is supposed to help with stool issues, both diarrhea and constipation. I don't know of any harm in using it, as long as you have ruled out any possible disease conditions that might be causing stool issues.

Slippery elm won't do a thing for the early morning vomiting bile. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Copying my response to your same discussion in the Health Group:

It's very common, and you are correct that it's due to her having an empty stomach for too many hours between dinner and breakfast. We've had many discussions in TFG about this. The solution is not to feed her something early in the morning, but rather to give her a snack before bed. Most people give a few biscuits or a small portion reserved from the dinner meal. With a raw diet, I don;t know how you could do that, but I'm sure there's something she could have. This has worked very well for those whose dogs have this issue. 

It's my understanding that most dogs who were previously on Proin for bladder leakage are being switched to a hormonal drug by their vets. I would strongly urge you to talk to a vet about this rather than a "dog nutritionist". There is no accredited program for canine nutrition in this country other than a veterinary specialty degree, which requires a DVM and then post graduate study and specialty degree. Anyone can call themselves a "dog nutritionist", and often, these people have no formal education and a mail order or weekend seminar is their only credential. 

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