Nutrition 101-Just The Facts, Ma'am!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I think much of the confusion about feeding our dogs stems from our general confusion and lack of knowledge about nutrition in general...after all, many of us are not sure about what we should be eating ourselves. In this discussion, we'll try to give & get some basic facts about what food IS, what it does, and what it DOESN'T do...including the effects of diet on allergies and other illnesses.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

What is food? It's fuel for the body. It supplies the nutrients that cells need to function, and it supplies units of energy (calories) to sustain life. In the simplest analogy, eating food is like putting gas in your car. The digestive system breaks down all food into basic forms which can be absorbed by the body, and that which can't be absorbed or utilized leaves the body as waste. Sounds simple when you think of it that way, doesn't it?
Then why are we so confused about what to eat, and what to feed our dogs? For people, there are all sorts of emotional issues that go along with eating. If we thought about food as fuel, everyone would be making better choices, and the obesity levels in this country would go down, along with the revenues from diet books. Dogs, however, are much more practical about it. THEIR problem is, they have to depend on US to make the menu choices for them. I hope that through an exchange of information and experience, we can learn to make those choices based on what is best for our doodles' health.
When we want to buy a car or an appliance, we do some research to find out what brands and features will be our best option. We don't walk up to the car salesman and ask "Is this a good car?" (Find me one who will say 'no, the dealer across the street's cars are better.') We look to INDEPENDENT sources to find out if the dealer's claims are true. Why, then, when we see advertising for a diet book, a vitamin, a supplement, or even an entire method of feeding our beloved friends, do we believe what the person who stands to make a profit is telling us? When we educate ourselves on nutrition, both for ourselves and our dogs, we are better able to determine whether the advice we are reading about in an ad or on a website is logical, if it is based on scientific fact, or if it is a fad, a scam, or worse. I hope to explore these issues here as well.

[Adina P]

Music to my ears! I so appreciate how level-headed you are about nutrition, Karen :-)
As a human dietitian, I know all too well how much myth and misinformation is out there that the general public gobbles up.

However, I'd tend to be very very VERY skeptical when it comes to canine nutrition available... But I do want to learn--I just wish there was a degree available in companion animal nutrition.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You have hit on the exact problem for many of us, Adina, and I'm relieved to hear that someone with as much knowledge on human nutrition as you still has the same trouble that I have finding reliable information about canine nutrition.
I intend to begin by looking at the books by recognized authorities- Pitcairn, Marion Nestle, etc.- where there's a will....

[Adina P]

Never read Pitcairn, but I love Marion Nestle's book "Food Politics"!

[Jacquie Yorke (DRC)]

You simply MUST pick up a copy of Picairn's book!...You especially would find it fascinating!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Nestle's "The Chihuahua in the Coal Mine" is also excellent, I hear.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Here's a tip that involves many of our categories...Nutrition 101, homecooking, and RAW diets:
There is actually more nutritional value in certain cooked vegetables than in the same veggies served raw- carrots are one example. The reason is that plant cells have cell walls, unlike animal cells, and these cell walls are made of indigestible plant cellulose. When you cook the veggies slightly, the cell walls are broken down, and the nutrients become more easily absorbed by the body.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Regarding vitamin supplements for dogs:
If you are feeding a premium grade kibble, it is not necessary to give your dog an additional vitamin supplement; the food itself is formulated to provide all the vitamins needed IN THE PROPER AMOUNTS.
For those who are feeding homecooked, check our "supplements" discussion for recommendations on what Lynne and others are adding to their doodles' diets. I know that the raw and BARF diet guidelines have their own recommendations for this, too.
(I have a fair amount of knowledge in this area on human nutritional needs, but none at all on the specific vitamins & minerals required by dogs, and the proportions of each, which is a very important factor in vitamin supplementation for humans AND dogs. Because humans do not eat diets which come already formulated with all the necessary nutrients, I do not think it is a bad idea for people to take an ordinary, basic multi-vitamin. Necessary calcium and/or iron levels, depending on your sex & age, can be difficult to obtain through diet alone. (Hopefully, Adina will verify this )However, when it comes to human vitamin supplementation, you can actually create problems for yourself by increasing the amounts of one particular vitamin, say B2, without also increasing the amounts of the other vitamins with which they "work in tandem", so to speak...in this example, B6 would also have to be increased in relative proportion. I expect that the same must be true of the way vitamins are utilized by dogs, and this will be an area that I intend to begin researching.)

[Adina P]

Why is it that there is so much suspicion about vets and food companies because they could possibly be making a buck off of their advice... And there isn't equal suspicion toward "natural" supplement companies? Are they not both operating a business?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I was thinking about that last night. Particularly about people who call themselves "herbalists", "naturapaths", and even some who use the title of nutritionist. I have known some of these people to sell hundreds of dollars worth of supplements, herbs, etc., to their clients. They usually do not even have any kind of certification or affiliation with a recognized association that could give you some information as to their qualifications, educational background, etc. I have had clients pay a small fortune for products which ended up being essentially worthless. I have even seen nutrients used incorrectly (ridiculously high quantities, antagonistic combinations, etc) and lots of really bad advice and illogical "diagnoses" being made.
When I was doing training, I had to show proof every year of continuing ed courses (expensive), and pay a certification renewal fee as well. In return, my clients could turn to the American Council on Exercise to back-up & verify my competency. I imagine you have some similar requirements in your profession. Doctors certainly do.
I am suspicious of anyone who is trying to sell me anything...especially when they are making claims for a product about which I know nothing, and the claims sound too good to be true. There is apparently some kind of appealing lure to words like "natural", "herbal", "holistic", etc. It would be an interesting study to find out why.

[Lynne Fowler-Oodles of Doodles]

You said it, Karen..."suspicious of anyone who is trying to sell me anything." After all that has happened and all that we have learned about dogfood, treats, vaccinations, vets, stores, and on and on...it makes sense to research anything and everything we, our children and our pets eat. Look at all the peanut butter recalls. All/Every company is looking to reduce costs and increase profits. Economics 101. If it sounds too good to be true...it probably is. Life 101.

[Dianne Carter ~ Trinity Doodles]

I *think* for me my suspicions rise any time anyone seems to elude to 'their way is the ONLY way' or the 'best' way. All situations involving any living cell whether plant, animal or human have unique variables so unless it is something based in undisputable fact ie. such and such bacteria can only be killed or respond to xyz product and abc product is completely ineffective. Some conditions respond to specific treatments, sometimes those same duplicated conditions in another being do not. Unfortunately when we rely on others to enhance our own knowledge of the situation we limit ourselves to only gathering the spectrum of information they have, which also may be limited despite their backgrounds or anything they have that verifies their knowledge. In a scenario we are all familiar with I will liken this to Hills food, we all know some very intelligent and cutting edge professionals who truly lack in their nutrition 101 to even be able to step back and see why it is not a good choice. I think we are sometimes guilty of perpetuating the issues by how we present questions or information to the point that we cannt be heard because of a defensive barrier that raises when feeling attacked.

My ultimate wish list in a health care provider whether for my human family or my furkids is not someone who thinks their way is the only way but would be receptive to alternatives if what they have known to work is not resulting in their anticipated response. Additionally they would consider that the BEST treatment might be in using a combination of approaches ~ Adina I am sure could relate to an example of this one, optimally we should be able to derive all of our nutritional needs from our food but in cases where that does not happen or will not happen (because of the choices made by a client) alternatives like supplements might be explored.

Several years ago I had some chronic pain which led me along a extensive path to include many cookie cutter treatments. I say this because along the journey each presenter thought they had the answer. Chiropractic, MD, physical therapy, massage therapy, nutrition perspectives and even the dentist said 'do you have...we can help' - all listed the same symptoms. The thing that they ALL had in common was their clear dislike of the other methods and doubt of results from them and most important that NONE of them resolved my issue by themselves. It was only when I took control and incorporated what did work for me from many choices and used them in combination that I experienced the results I wanted. It seems so obvious doesn't it? I guess the key is being able to step back and look at the large picture?