Orijen 6 Fish and Loose Stools

[Nick Pietras]

Hi Everyone,

 

Many of you have helped me before as I've struggled through my Gus' food issues!

 

Gus is 10 months old, and after Innova puppy seemed to disagree with him, we started him on CN. That worked great for about 2 months and then wham...loose stools and diarreaha. We've had him tested several times, he's done two rounds of metronidazole, etc. We've had him on chicken and rice and then started him back on CN, and instant loose stool. A week ago, I decided to try a grain free food, and we'd heard great things about Orijen 6 Fish. It was an instant 180 - he had the best stools of his short little life thus far! On the 6th day of being on the food (as well as an easy digest probiotic to help ease the transition) some loose stools started again. And they've been kind of back and forth for the past few days. Not as loose as before when he was on CN, but certainly a difference from when he first started on the food. When we started him on the Orijen, we cut out all grain foods, and I got him EVO Taste of the Wild red meat formula treats, which I started giving him a few days in. I'm going to stop giving him those to see if maybe that's what is causing the loose stools (too much protein, perhaps..and maybe not good to give him two different kinds of protein?)

 

I also know that he just may still be adjusting, but just wondered if the fact that he was instantly having great stools and then not so great stools is a sign that the food does not agree with him...he LOVES the food though...he eagerly eats it, when usually he would require some type of enticing topper on just kibble. I'm also giving him the lesser amount of the recommended daily feeding (about 1 and 1/2 cups per day...the recommended amount for his weight is 1 1/4 - 2 3/4 cups per day) so I don't think its a case of overfeeding. His energy is normal, I feel like his coat is more vibrant than usual as well.

 

I don't want to give up on this food quite yet - just wondering if anyone can offer any advice or perhaps has a similar story?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Christine, on May 17th, while discussing this here in the Homecooking section, I said:

Reply by Karen & Jack on May 17, 2010 at 8:09am
You make a good point, Jane. I somehow overlooked the fact that Daisy is only 5 months old. It's very important that growing puppies get all the nutrients they need in the correct proportions, especially the minerals, and it's very hard for the average person to do that on a homecooked diet alone.
Christine, at this age, I think you may have to stick primarily with a good commercial food once Daisy's digestive issues have resolved, with maybe some homecooking added. I would ask your vet about this.

This was after I had given you the advice about the peas, carrots and benas, and obviously before I realized Daisy was only 5 months old.

Normally, you give chicken & rice when a puppy is having digestive issues (diarrhea, vomiting) due to illness. When the digestion returns to normal, you return the puppy to its normal diet, i.e. kibble. So the advice, "give the chicken & rice until the poop is normal" applied to a diet during illness, not meant for the long run. If you read through this particular discussion started by Nick, you will see that staying with one grain-free kibble, without changing back and forth and adding all different kinds of things results in the puppy's digestion becoming stable and the poop becoming normal. If no day's food is the same as the previous day's, the puppy's digestive system can't adjust because there is no norm to adjust to.
My Jack had terrible diarrhea Saturday; horrible. The only way to clean it up was with a hose. And I know exactly why: He got too much Omega 3 fatty acid from too much fish on Friday.
So here's what I did. I didn't give him pumpkin, or yogurt, or homecooked foods, or anything at all except his regular dry Orijen kibble for 24 hours. And that allowed his system to return to normal; on Sunday, his poop was firm as could be. Now I'm back to giving him treats, fresh food added to his bowl, etc.
You need to get Daisy to a state of "normal", and the only way to do that is to have each day's food be exactly the same as the day before's, until she adjusts. Once you have had her on the same exact diet day in and day out with no variations and her stools are consistent from one to the next, you have achieved "normal". Stick with the plan outlined by Jane above until you get "normal", no matter how long it takes. Please keep us posted.

[Christine and Daisy]

I decided to give Daisy a second small dinner two hours after the first one. About 30 minutes after the earlier dinner, she had another loose bm, but tonight seemed worse than normal. She seemed pretty hungry afterwards as generally she doesn't try to eat everything in the house unless she's really hungry.

This dinner conisisted of a half serving of softened Orijen kibble and 1 small tbsp of hc. She happily gulped every bit of it down and out on our walk, she did produce a much runnier bm than ever before, however, I know it is in her best interest and we will continue to do this for her, the same way, so she can have some sort of healthy normal-ness in her diet.

I wanted to give this to her tonight as she can start to get used to it while out of her crate. In the AM, she's only out for 2 hours (from 5-7am) before going back in for 3. Then she's out for 2 hours while hubby is home on lunch and in for 3 til I get home from work at 3pm. Since I recently injured my lower back, she'll have a lucky break as I'm not working tomorrow. At least I won't be concerned about her having a runny bm in her crate while I can't get to her.

I am really glad to hear that Jack is feeling better. I know what it's like with the hose, almost every bm Daisy has is that way.

I will keep you posted.

Thanks again for all your input.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Please know that I really "get" how difficult this whole thing is. I went through it for several months with my 15 month old Doodle. He was ultimately diagnosed with IBS. Once he reached full skeletal growth (around 11 mos because he was a mini), I was able to move him to home cooking and the problems were solved. It was such a difficult time prior to that. I was always worried about him because his episodes of loose stools became almost constant. I was also tempted to move him early to home cooking, just so he could have "normal" BMs, but I knew that would ultimately be bad for him. So we struggled through it. When the episodes became so bad that the loose stools became frequent (several times a day) and very runny, I would have to put him on the chicken and rice for a day or two to clear it up. Then he'd go back on his kibble. I'm now struggling a little with my five month old standard Doodle who seems to be starting down the same path. Over the past month we've had two episodes of vomiting and severe diarrhea. Again, I do two days of chicken and rice with yogurt/pumpkin and then get him back on his kibble. So, I absolutely do understand what you're going through, and that you're trying to do the right thing. Please continue to keep us posted. Remember there is "light at the end of the tunnel". I now look at my 15 month old who is doing great with no more digestive problems, and I can hardly remember that time when every day was a challenge.

[Nick Pietras]

Christine - I feel your pain. This is such a frustrating situation on so many levels - its frustrating for you to deal with messy BM's, you worry about the health of your dog, etc.

When we first got Gus, I tried the Orijen puppy - he would not eat it, because I think it was just too tough for him. The Orijen 6 Fish is approved for all ages and is smaller and not as tough as the puppy kibble, in my opinion. If it continues to be a struggle, you might want to try the 6 Fish. Orijen also sells small sample bags, that probably have about 2 days worth of food, so you don't have to buy the whole thing if you're just testing it out. Also, Orijen fully guarantees their food, so if you're not happy with it, you can take it back to the store for a full refund/store credit.

I agree with Karen - stick to a simple diet when they're having trouble. Its easier on the dog's system and more helpful because it reduces the amount of things that could be causing a bad reaction. And, she's right - you have to establish a "normal" for Daisy. Also, in reading through your posts, I would really recommend sticking to strict eating times to establish a routine. Even if she seems hungrier later - don't feed her another meal. She's not starving and she will not starve. A regular eating routine not only helps her, but will help you because it will establish a regular pooping routine. Gus gets fed at roughly the same time every morning and night (varies from weekday to weekend, but its always within the same hour, hour and a half. And like clockwork, he poops every morning after 7 and every night after 6. And when he poops in the middle of the day or at an odd time, I know that something might be up with him. Karen is also right about limiting food when the dog is a little funky, and just keep them on their normal, base diet.
And of course, patience is key. I think we were really lucky with Gus in that once we switched to a grain-free, he instantly improved. But it can take several weeks for a dog to normalize, especially puppies whose systems are still developing and changing.
Good luck! I'm sure she will improve!

[Christine and Daisy]

Daisy really likes the puppy Orijen, so I'll stick with that for now, until the bag is nearly finished & diet is normalized before switching. We are just adding water to moisten it first.

I will have to continue with the dried chicken breast treats because we can't really give her Orijen when it has to be softened. I can't see myself bringing hot water to the doggy park. Other than those two, we aren't giving her anything else for now. The pumpkin and anything else is waiting til her system normalizes itself.

So far she seems to be doing well on it. Her bm's have not changed dramatically with the grain-free. I think she is tolerating it better than all the others she tried. This may prove to be the winner afterall!