Puppy nutrition transition plan

[NewfoundlandNic]

First off, I have to say this is an amazing group. As a veteran pet owner, I have looked often for valuable nutrition advice for my furry family, and this is by far the best group I have come across. Karen - your work here, along with the others, is invaluable. My vet has admitted that as a profession they have failed their animals by the lack of understanding (hence advice) of nutrition. I am going to be telling her about this group next time I see her.

 

We are welcoming Georgia into our family next week. She will be 9 weeks old and is a standard goldendoodle. She is currently being fed Kirkland puppy food, but I want to switch her to a better food. My previous dog was a Lab cross, and she had skin issues at certain points of the year. We had switched her to Orijen at the age of three but her coat suffered, then we moved her to Fromms and then back to Orijen and added Omega 3s and plain yogurt. She died too early at age 8 last year - cancer.

 

Anyway, I want to switch Georgia so I have been reading posts on this group to gather information. I didn't know that Fromms was designed to be rotated - that is great. Is Orijen designed that way too? How often does one rotate? Do you rotate puppy food as well? Is Acana related to Orijen?

 

I guess I am going to have to buy a huge bag of Kirkland puppy food - argh. I think the general recommendation seems to be to wait to transition their food until they have been settled at least two weeks. Is that correct? How long should it take to switch over?

 

Our poor Parker suffered from dermatitis two or three times a year. Am I correct in understanding that you may think grains cause these reactions? Could someone point me to good grains and poor grains?

 

Thanks all. Much appreciated.

 

Nicole

[NewfoundlandNic]

Thanks Nancy. Unfortunately Kirkland is the Costco house brand, and as far as I am aware, everything at Costco comes in one size: huge. ;-)

[NewfoundlandNic]

Hi Nancy, I wish our breeder lived that close - if that was the case I would have met my puppy before now lol. Nope, she lives four provinces away - I am in the eastern most part of Canada and puppy is in Ontario. A three day journey. I'll be donating the food!

 

Love your doodle, by the way.

Nicole

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

We've got a lot of questions here. Let me try to take them one by one.

Your previous dog's allergies had nothing to do with food. Food allergies are not seasonal. Food allergies are also the rarest form of allergies in dogs, contrary to what many people think.

Corn and wheat are considered inferior foods for dogs, and if a dog is going to have food allergies, those are the two foods most likely to cause the problem. But they are also ingredients that are usually only found in lower quality foods, and those are the foods that are also more likely to be contaminated with storage or cereal mites...which are an environmental allergen similar to dust mites. So we avoid them. I personally avoid all cereal grains, because Jackdoodle does have an allergy to storage mites, and the less particulate matter in a food, the lower the chances of storage mites.

There is no evidence that rice, oats, or rye cause any problem for dogs. Some of us have found our dogs do better on higher protein foods, and grain-free foods are by nature higher in protein...there are only three macronutrients, so if you decrease one of them (carbohydrates, in the case of grains) the protein percentage naturally is higher. But many dogs here do very well with the heathier grains. So that choice is up to you.

You can rotate "flavors" within any food. I rotate between all three Orijen formulas. How often you do it with an adult dog is up to you. JD gets a different flavor each meal. That's not the most economical way to do it, though. Most people rotate with each new bag.

Acana is made by the same company that makes Orijen, Champion Foods. That's the relationship.

Please do not change your puppy's food for at least two weeks after you get her. We have several discussions here about why this would be a bad idea, but briefly, she will be going through enough huge changes. let one, thing, her food, be familiar and comforting to her. Stress can cause stomach issues, food changes can cause stomach issues, and many doodle puppies come home with intestinal parasites, most often coccidia and giardia. If you keep her food a constant, it will be easier for you to know what her normal stool is like, and if she has problems, you will at least know her food isn't the cause.

You can transition her gradually over a week's time, or you canh just do it cold turkey...provided her stools are firm and there are no digestive issues.

Once you do transition her, i would stay with one formula for at least a month before doing rotation diets. Young puppies digestive systems are immature, just like babies.

Hope that helps.

[NewfoundlandNic]

Thanks very much. I will take your advice and not even introduce new food until she has been settled for two weeks. So this week I buy Kirkland puppy food to prepare for her arrival.

 

Hmmm...I have only ever adopted/rescued dogs from the pound in the past, and none have had parasites to the best of my knowledge. Will my vet pick up on that? What are the signs of parasites and how can I help? Whoops. Not a food question. I'll Google it later tonight.

 

Thanks again,

Nicole

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

A huge percentage of doodle puppies come home with giardia and coccidia; the breeders claim all puppies have it, but I had purebred puppies in the past, from both show breeders and just somebody's dog having a litter, and I never even heard of those things until I got involved in the doodle forums. I believe it's from having so many dogs and litters at once and letting the puppies run around unsupervised outdoors in areas where adult dogs and other wildlife have access. My puppies in the past  were from breeders who kept them in an isolated area when outdoors, away from all standing water and any possible contaminated fecal matter from other dogs or animals.  At any rate, if you do a search here on DK, you will fall over at the number of puppy owners whose dogs came home from the breeder with giardia.

Most rescues do a fecal test on every dog who comes in, and treats them for parasites before they can be adopted out.

I would have a fecal done immediately on any new puppy, and then I'd watch the stool closely for a few weeks. Giardia has a 10-14 day incubation period, and if there aren't cysts present in a sample, it can be hard to diagnose. Believe me, you'll know...diarrhea isn't even the word for it, they really need another term for what a dog with giardia produces!

[Monica & Quincy & Charmin too]

Can we start adding pumpkin to a 10 week olds food to help with loose stools or is that too young?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'd determine the cause of the loose stools first. A healthy puppy should have well-formed stools. The pumpkin won't hurt, but it also won't cure anything. I'd rather see you try to get at the cause of the loose stool. Is it from a food change, is it from stress, or is it parasites? If it's one of the first two, it should resolve within a week or two. If you try to mask the symptoms, you'll never know what's going on.

[Monica & Quincy & Charmin too]

Great advice.  Thanks Karen! 

[Aimee Santa Monica]

Congratulations on your new pup! What an exciting time for everyone! :)
We've had our Storm since this past mid- December ( he was 9 weeks then), and Ayla we just got her in Febuary. She's 2 weeks younger than Storm. I have been giving them Nutro's " Ultra" (Petsmart) since the beginning, reading about how it is holistic food, whole grains , veg, and fruits ingredients. They have had soft -real soft, too soft stools and it has been frustrating! I'm so glad i am a member of this site, and i was able to read about everyone's experiences .
I have switched to Orijen this past week- and still transtioning slowly, and so far- a big improvement! What a huge difference! At the beginning of switching their food, adding a TBSP of plain yogurt helped alot, too. I'm so glad i can come here and ask for advice when i need it!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm glad you got rid of the Nutro. Years ago, it was the top premium food available. I fed it for 19 years. Then the company was bought out by Mars Corp. in 2007. That's the same year several thousands of dogs and cats died from tainted foods produced by the Big Dog Food companies that purchase ingredients through  food brokers from China. Nutro was one of the brands involved.

I'm glad the Orijen is working for your pups.

[Jena ~ Dublin]

Hi Nicole, Welcome to the group!  I am as well new to DK as a whole let a lone the Nutrition aspect of things. This is a WHOLE NEW WORLD for me!  We thought we were feeding our GPS great food from Petsmart and found out its 'just OK food.  Anyway, in my research, and I have done A LOT, in dry dog food fromms is the best you are going to get.  Yes, you can rotate it.  I went to a local holistic pet store here & was told Orijen & Acana are owned by the same company.  Not sure which is the higher quality line, maybe someone else knows....Orijen also is ok to switch as well.  I have Dublin on Orijen, Puppy and am looking forward to giving him a variety when he is able! We tried Precise and that just didn't agree with Dublin too much. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Hi Jena, and welcome to TFG.

One piece of advice you will see here a lot is that it's never a good idea to make purchase decisions about anything, let alone things that can impact health, based on the advise of the salesperson who is selling the product. These are retail clerks, who get most of their information from the sales reps who sell the food to them in the first place. And "holistic" is just a catch phrase that many people take to mean "natural" when it really only means "whole", lol.

Fromm is one of our very favorite brands, and it's an excellent food, but I would not say it's the "best" you're going to get; even very high quality foods sometimes don't work for every dog.

Orijen and Acana are both made by Champion Foods of Canada, which like Fromm, are privately owned companies that only make pet food. In the case of the Champion lines, the ingredients are all locally sourced. Fromm also does not use  imported ingredients. In the case of Orijen and Acana, the quality itself is the same; it is the percentages of macronutrients in the various formulas that is slightly different. Acana has a slightly lower price point for most of their formulas than Orijen does. We have members here whose dogs do better with Orijen, and others whose dogs do better with Acana.

Orijen formulas are all high protein and grain free. Acana makes both grain-free formulas and healthy grain formulas. The protein content in most of them is lower than that of Orijen. A grain-free food will almost always have a higher protein content than one containing grains. So there is that consideration when choosing a food as well. fromm has two formulas that are grain-free. Most of their formulas are lower in protein than the Champion products, especially the formulas that do contain grains.

You really can't go wrong in terms of quality with any of the formulas from fromm or from Champion.