RX dog food

[Britni Rampton]

can someone give me the scoop on Purina HA Rx dog food? My vet gave me a prescription for this but I hesitant bc my bad experience with fortiflora! 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Purina HA is a hydrolyzed protein food designed for dogs with food allergies. IF you have to use a hydrolyzed protein formula, Royal Canin HP is a much better choice. However, unless your dog has been reliably diagnosed with Inflammatory Bowel Disease, there is absolutely no reason to spend money for Rx food which is just overpriced garbage  full of low quality ingredients (and in the case of Purina HA,  synthetic vitamin K, which has been linked to all kinds of serious health issues.) If food sensitivities are suspected, you use a limited ingredient food with a single "novel" protein, i.e. one your dog has never eaten before. 

It's really important to understand that there is no nutrition curriculum in vet school, that what most vets do know about nutrition comes directly from the marketing departments at Hills, Purina, and Mars, and that there are no therapeutic or medicinal ingredients in Rx foods. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It's only been a week since we discussed your dog's GI issues in another discussion here. Have you started the probiotics? it does take some time for them to have an effect. 

[Britni Rampton]

No, we are starting that this week- my proviable will come in tmrw. 

This is what the vet recommends (Rx food) - bc again, my pup is having more diarrhea and all parasite/infection tests come back clear. 

MY plan was to start the proviable, give for a week, then start transitioning (over 7-10 days) to a new single protein kibble (whether puppy specific or not, at this point I’ve got to him on something his tummy will tolerate. He’s 7 months and 40 lbs- is this ok? Or is it necessary I stick to puppy food?). I’m also starting obedience training with him this week. Maybe we can get some of the anxieties worked out. 

Is that an okay plan in your opinion? I’m getting so many conflicting directions between here, the breeder, other doodle groups, and our vet. I’m almost in tears and just need A reasonable direction to move. Everyone agrees with probiotics, so I’m going with y’all on this one. As far as food- he’s on Wellness puppy grain free and has been for 2 weeks now and his poop was fine up until 3 days ago (as I predicted). Now it’s pudding (yet again) and occasionally encased in a clear jelly-like film. Only a couple times has that encasement and color looks good. Not sure what food to turn to next. All I know is the only thing in common with all the  food he’s been on for the last 5 months has been chicken. So moving away from chicken, like salmon is where I was thinking. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, there is a lot of conflicting info out there about everything, lol, especially health issues, and you can't listen to everyone. I think you need to choose a source you trust and feel comfortable with, while also looking at the qualifications/education behind the advice. I personally wouldn't take advice from doodle groups on FB about anything, because I've seen the really bad and sometimes even harmful info there. We've already discussed breeders' knowledge on this; my breeder actually asks me for advice on dog food, lol. Vets are trained in medicine, not nutrition. They also make a profit on the RX foods, which represents a conflict of interest.  But you are free to follow any advice you choose.  I'm happy to help, but I also don't want to waste my time, lol. 

Your pup's diarrhea is most likely the result of a bacterial overgrowth in the gut. Food, any kind of food, is not going to help with that. Neither is RX food. This is what always happens when a puppy is given repeated courses of metronidazole without a probiotic. The fact that it sounds like the puppy came home with giardia would to me negate any advice from the breeder, lol. The fact that the vet prescribed multiple courses of metronidazole would also make me question his/her advice, since metronidazole is not the best treatment for giardia, has side effects, and MUST be followed be followed up with a good probiotic. 
What you pup needs is to have a good strong colony of good gut bacteria for proper stool formation; that only happens with a couple of weeks on a good probiotic. As far as diet goes, he needs something simple and easy to digest. That would be a limited ingredient, single protein diet with an Omega 6:3 ratio less than 5 to 1, a lower fat content and a higher fiber percentage. The reason the foods you've tried didn;t work has nothing to do with chicken, contrary to what the people in the FB groups may say. It has to do with the foods have the wrong macronutrient balance, (too much fat, not enough fiber, poor Omega 6:3 ratio) and too many ingredients. You need a "bland diet", which is why I recommend Wellness Simple Solutions. They don;t make a chciken formula anyway. I suggest their Salmon & Potato formula. 
So here is the reasonable direction I would move in if this was my dog: Proviable daily for at least a month. Wellness Simple Solutions Salmon & Potato. NO treats other than plain single ingredient treats such as Pure Bites or dehydrated sweet potato. NO chews other than something like an elk antler or a non-edible Nylabone. And patience. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Oh, and you never, ever do a slow transition when there are digestive issues and you are switching to a completely different type of food. Mixing those two completely opposite diets is not going to help and may make matters worse. Switch foods cold turkey, period. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I aslo do not want to scare you, but that jelly-like casing on the poop is one symptom of Inflammatory Bowel Disease, and I would not wish that on my worst enemey's dog. It is an immune mediated incurable disease that requires lifelong management with special diet, supplements, and drugs, and it costs about $3000 just to get an accurate diagnosis. Uncontrolled bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine is one precursor to IBD (not to be confused with IBS, which is what the people in the FB doodle do, lol). So you need a plan now. 

[Britni Rampton]

Thank you so much. I will do everything you have suggested here as soon as I can. My gut does not trust the vet with this and the breeder is incompetent in a lot of areas (I've learned). Crosby (our pup) has been on Metronidazole once and it was paired with a probiotic (some probiotic Ive never heard of that the breeder gave us). We don't give him any treats- stopped that a couple weeks ago bc of all this (glad we're on the same page) and he only chews toys and nyla bone (same page again). 

I have a few more questions for you. As far as the IBD, are you saying he has that and we need to get a diagnosis on it? or are you saying we can potentially turn this around by doing everything you say now? That post really scared my husband and I... so I'd like to know if your previous recommendation of simple solutions and Proviable is something that will help fight that bad bacterial build up OR do we need to go back to the vet and get a diagnosis?

Another question:

Do I need to have him on the proviable for a month before I switch (cold turkey) to the simple solutions?

Also, this is an adult formula dog food. Is puppy food that important at this point? And will you help me with feeding him the correct amount?

Sorry for all the questions and thank you again for the direction. I will read the links you posted today. I really am lost on what to do, so I will start here- as many people praise your word/recommendation! 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Okay, so we've already discussed the fact that the breeder's "probiotic" was inappropriate for dogs. He has really not been on a good probiotic at all. 

I am definitely not saying that he has IBD. I am saying that you need to trun this around NOW so that he doesn;t get IBD, and that means deciding on and implementing a solid, effective treatment plan and disregarding all other advice. 
The food change and the Proviable should help turn this around. If it doesn't there is another probitoic I will recommend, but let's start with Proviable. If you read those discussions I posted, you will hear more about the probiotic.
Getting an actual diagnosis is going to involve some very expensive testing, so let's start with the probiotics and food change. 
Do not wait a month to switch foods. Start both the Proviable and the new food now. 
Lots of people never feed foods that are "puppy" formulas, myself included. There are many ALS "all life stages" foods that are perfectly fine for puppies, especially older pups like yours. I will be happy to help you with feeding amounts with the Simple Solutions. 

[Britni Rampton]

Thank you so so much! Hoping this works. I will do exactly as you say and thank for your willingness to help me. I ordered the simple solutions today and will start both (probiotic and kibble) as soon as I receive them. 

[Britni Rampton]

We got the wellness simple tonight and supposed to receive the proviable tmrw morning. 

Karen, what’s your recommendation on kibble amount? Crosby is 37 lbs and 7 months old. Also, how do you recommend we start the proviable? Once a day? Twice? With each meal? 

My sincere thank you again for your help!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Proviable is given once a day I believe. There should be dosage info on the package. 

For the kibble, I'd start with one and a quarter cups twice a day (two and a half cups per day total). If he seems hungry, increase it to one and a half cups twice a day. 

[Britni Rampton]

Thanks