Sensitive belly question - frustrated doodle mom!

[angela buckner]

Hello all!  My girl Harlie is 6 months old and has had soft stools pretty much since we got her at 9 weeks old.  We've been on multiple rounds of antibiotics (metranydozol) and it will stiffen up while on meds (until this latest go-around) but then softens up again when meds are complete.  I have her on Proviable probiotics daily already.  Not sure it's doing much for her.  We've gone from the breader giving her blue buffalo chicken/rice to Zignature Lamb (but she had 8 poos a day on this) to now we are on Farmina Lamb (switching from grain free to low grain currently).  But her poo's are still soft!  I am not sure what to do or what to try!  Vet said we can go back to zignature and try a more novel protein and I was thinking the trout/salmon formula but I am afraid she will start pooing 8 times a day again!

Has anyone found any success with a brand for their puppy?  I see Wellness was suggested to another mom with a similar problem (Hi Lori) but there isn't a "puppy" formula.  I find most limited ingredient foods are not puppy formula based so I am open to see what helps our girl have good strong poos!

Our vet cancelled her spay due to the fact she is having soft stools - and I really don't want her to have a heat cycle so the quicker we can help find a solution the better!  Isn't she just too cute??!!

[angela buckner]

I should edit this to say she was bacteria free this last round of poo testing and previous tests came back with the excess bacteria in her gut - hence the reason for the antibiotics previously...

Thanks all!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Hi Angela,
The most likely cause of Harlie's stool issues is the repeated courses of metronidazole. Metronidazole destroys all of the good bacteria that is necessary for proper stool formation; your exepreince is exactly typical of what usually happens; the stool is fine while the dog is on the drug, and then as soon as it is discontinued, the diarrhea reappears. This leads to a bacterial imbalance in the gut and chronic diarrhea. (For future reference, metronidazole should never be given unless there is a really good reason. Diarrhea is not a good reason to give a powerful drug with side effects to a puppy, and in the case of giardia, the preferred drug is Panacur, which has little to no side effects and is actually more effective at clearing giardia anyway. And "bacteria free" can refer to no good gut bacteria, either, which is not a good thing.)  
It takes weeks if not months on a good probiotic to get a good strong colony of beneficial gut flora going. (and the probiotics must always be given several hours apart from any antibiotics). 
You might consider using Proviable KP in conjunction with the proviable DC that i assume you are already giving. There is also a human probiotic, VSL#3, that has done wonders for many dogs here with chronic diarrhea and serious digestive issues. You can get it at human pharmacies w/o a prescription, call around in your area to see who carries it. Ask for the capsules. I buy it at CVS. It MUST be kept refreigerated. A $100,000 study by Albert Jergens at Iowa State vet school showed VSL#3 to be extremely effective for dogs with GI disease, and that has been my experience. (You can refer your vet to that info if he is unfamiliar with this.) Using the VSL#3 for 2-4 weeks (one capsule per day) should be enough. 
As to limited ingredient diets and puppy formulas, you never really need to use a "puppy" formula, and certainly not for a 6 month old dog. Many of us here feed ALS (all life stages) formulas from the beginning. My 7 mo. old puppy has been on an ALS formula since he was 8 weeks old.
I strongly recommend that you try the Wellness Simple Solutions food. Try the Salmon & Potato or Turkey & Potato formulas. Give only 100% pure protein treats like Pure Bites. And no peanut butter, even if you are only using it to give a pill. 
This protocol has worked really well for dozens of others here with the same situation, I hope it does for you too. 

[angela buckner]

Thanks Karen!

I'll look for that VSL...I wasn't aware that the probiotic should be given apart from the antibiotic - I've just been giving her them back to back in the AM.  We had a good 3 - 4 week run where her poo's were "normal" on the Farmina Lamb but after her first groomer appointment - they went soft again and have stayed soft (that was almost 4 weeks ago now).

As for the wellness - would you blend her current food with that for transitioning?  And since it's ALS - how much would you give a puppy?  Harlie is almost 40 pounds (somewhere between 36 and 40).

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The antibiotics will kill off the beneficial bacteria in the probiotics if you give them at the same time, so you are just basically wasting them. :)
I would not blend the foods, I would just switch her cold turkey. 

As far as feeding amounts, you can calculate how many calories she is currently getting on the Farmina food (info should be on the bag, or the website) and then feed that amount of calories of the Wellness. 

[Susan]

I have had the same issue with my new 10 month old labradoodle. He was on Costco good when I got him. I used Zignature Lamb and he had soft poops with it. Just switched to Earthborn Holistic limited ingredient with Pollack and pumpkin. The difference is amazing. His number of poops has dropped and they are finally firm! Good luck!

[angela buckner]

I was looking at that brand as well!  How much do you feed your guy?

[Cynthia Shoe]

Hi Angela, We have been through the ringer with our pup Lambeau for both vomiting and loose stool/bloody diarrhea issues (I am sure you can find some of my old posts). We did all the tests, sought out internal medicine specialists, and got him into a study at the CSU Vet Hospital. In the end the things that have helped our pup are the following:

- He is allergic/intolerant to beef. If he even licks a napkin we wiped our hands on after eating a burger, this will set him up for severe vomiting/ needing an IV. Beef is in so many treat items and human food items (chips!), so if he gets a dropped Dorito, he will be in a flare. We really don't let much beef into the house anymore. If you have not done a food elimination diet, you should try that.

- The two times we had prolonged diarrhea issues, we did multiple stool tests and they all came back normal. One of the vets at the CSU Vet Hospital empirically dewormed him with Pancur for 5 days and that cleared my boy up for a full year. It is possible he had whipworm, which mimics Addison's and is hard to detect. We started having issues again this past March until July and after reviewing all my notes, I noticed that we previously dewormed him, so I got the Pancur for him again and knock on wood, he has been ok for the past 7 weeks.

- We have used Fromm's and Farmina and like them both, but they have higher fat contents. So when our boy is in a flare, we go back to prescription kibble (We are on hydrolyzed Royal Canin). If he is doing well, we give him the other kibble as treats, if we have some to use up from before the flare.

- Our vet team still is keeping an eye on our pup for Addison's, even though all tests have come back normal, they think he just has all the symptoms for it.

- We also use the Proviable probiotics

- If they can put you on Tylan instead of metronidazole, that helped our boy out too and is not as rough as the metro.

It is so scary and tough and everyone is going to have different advice. Trust your mommy gut. Mine told me there was a beef issue and everyone told me that wasn't possible. The idea to give the Pancur again was a hunch and it worked, so we have him on a new worm preventative that also works for whipworm.

Sending hugs!

[Susan]

My guy is 50lbs, so he is getting 1.5 cups in the morning and 1 cup in the evening in addition to Sojos Turkey. He is doing fantastic on this combo.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Feeding amounts are dependent on the dog's age and weight, and for puppies, their expected adult weight, so the amount is going to be different for each individual dog. You can't go by how much someone else feeds.